liquids to mix with henna to push it to deep red

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Lavendark
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liquids to mix with henna to push it to deep red

I know there was a question similar to this on the previous forum, but what liquids in particular mixed with henna have produced a deep red rather than orange result? I seem to remember something about red hibiscus tea or red wine vinegar. And which henna would you use? Celebration maybe? I need to order more henna soon- I'm currently using Purity.

Don't get me wrong, I love the medium auburn results I got this last time, in my henna/amla/indigo mix. Just thinking ahead to my next treatment. Would love to have a nice deep red glow, somewhat like Mer's on the mixes page.

Carrie
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Re: liquids to mix with henna to push it to deep red

On my own hair, medium ash blonde, multiple hennas build up to a deep auburn/red. Less henna looks orangey brown, more henna looks deeper red/burgundy/auburn. This is all somewhat lighting-dependent, of course. I can't really say that what liquid I used made as much difference as how much henna has built up in my hair.

Boiling water mixes definitely faded to an ucky orange that I think most people would want to avoid.

In my tests on white goat hair, chamomile tea mixes stayed truer red without darkening over time to orangey brown, compared to lemon juice mixes. Your mileage may vary :)

Seems to me the browning effect of more acidity (like lemon juice or amla mixes provide) is desirable in body art, but on hair some of us want that increased browning-down-with-oxidation, and some of us don't. Not saying you can avoid color change with oxidation - you can't, but it's more extreme with a more acidic mix.

Lavendark
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Re: liquids to mix with henna to push it to deep red

Thanks Carrie! :-) I'm beginning to think a lot probably has to do with one's individuality as far as hair type/texture/chemistry goes. When I used chamomile tea in my mix for roots with Yemen and/or DotM henna I got a day-glo bright orange that never oxidized to a deep red, and I had at least 3 or more layers that overlapped. So I nixed that route altogether. Amla mixed with henna did nothing to tone down the orange for me on the first root mix tweak, but did help the indigo stay (so far) on the second tweak.

What I'd like to be able to do is only use henna, to achieve a deep red. But it appears I'd have to do several layers to get that color or be content with orange- and also run the risk of straightening my hair and losing my waves, which is not something I want to do. The addition of indigo & amla has definitely left me with a great color for my skin tone/eyes, which are rosy beige/brown. The orange looked really harsh and unnatural. I'm good with the medium auburn I have now, just would like some deeper red tones. So, hoping with the addition of the strong red hibiscus tea and/or red wine (vinegar or straight) will help. Has anyone else tried this with any success?

ziddy
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Re: liquids to mix with henna to push it to deep red

thanks for asking this question again. I'm still trying things on my test strands to get the the perfect red. some of the ladies over on LHC do seem to be getting a truer ruby red with yemeni henna, so maybe different hennas do go more red.

Carrie, when I look at your test strands, it looks to me like the amla and lemon juice and frozen henna mixes come out a more brighter red with toned down orange. maybe it's my monitor or I'm thinking darker/brighter looks more red. like here, 5a, 6a look more red to me.. http://www.flickr.com/photos/39335752@N04/3614536771/  but will those oxidize more brown?

Carrie
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Re: liquids to mix with henna to push it to deep red

Hi Ziddy,

Yes, the pic you link to shows initial results. Take a look at the same strands after 12 weeks oxidation:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/39335752@N04/3713938670/in/set-72157619485710101/

I think a lot changes as henna oxidizes; I tend to see more darkening and more browning with the more acidic mixes. Strand #7, cold chamomile not frozen, still holds pretty rich reddish color. It's a little browner but not as much so as the lemon juice strands.

ladytetsu
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Re: liquids to mix with henna to push it to deep red

red beverages won't give you red hair.  I tried them in my mixes, and paprika, and everything else in the book, and it just doesn't work.  try a really high dye-content pure henna, go light on the acid, and well, build the color up.  Mine is cherry cola, blazing ruby in the sun, and it took me quite a few hennas to get here.  My hair hasn't straightened out a lick, actually, it's brought what little curl I did have into play, YMMV.  There really aren't a whole lotta shortcuts in the good stuff, the patience and repetition factor is why people invented the nasty chemical stuff to avoid it.

Lavendark
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Re: liquids to mix with henna to push it to deep red

Ooooh, that sounds absolutely gorgeous! Do you have any pics you could share? I think I'll purchase Celebration and try one more full head application. I'm curious to see what it will do on the roots. I'll also go easy on the acid, as I have noticed significant scalp itchies the past couple times I used the LJ. To be on the safe side with my waves I'll add 1/4 amla to my mix. I figure if it still makes the grey orange-ish I can re-do them with a henindigo.

I really hope you can post a pic, ladytetsu. Would love to see the color you have!

ACWN
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Re: liquids to mix with henna to push it to deep red

Its very unlikely you'll get orange on your grays with Celebration, lavendark. Unless you leave it on for like... 10 minutes, lol. Anything over 2 hours is likely to give you a nice dark stain. With as high as the dye content is, its wicked powerful stuff. So... strand test first.

ladytetsu
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Re: liquids to mix with henna to push it to deep red

Lavendark - thanks - I kinda love my hair, it's my sole vanity while I very imaptiently lose weight.  Also, it's hard to take pix of your hair in sun without including yourself, but here ya go, at least the ends. . .

http://www.flickr.com/photos/ladytetsu/4682668174/

here's an older shot with me actually in it, back a few full-length treatments ago last fall.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/ladytetsu/4099299512/

That's pretty true-to life, and I'm actually brewing up a fresh batch to do my length again today before I go on a week's vacation.  Nothin' but henna, my original color was a kind of mousy greyish-brown, middling dark.

mauiangel
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Re: liquids to mix with henna to push it to deep red

WoW Ladytetsu....

you're hair is A*M*A*Z*I*N*Gggggggg

just had to give you some props. beautiful! :)

diamond_lvr
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Re: liquids to mix with henna to push it to deep red

You have gorgeous hair, Ladytetsu.  I've been working on different mixes for my henna as well.  I have dark blonde hair and my roots always come out orangey.  I've been using Yemen henna too.  I only put enough lemon in the mixture to make it like dry mashed potatoes, till dye release.  Then I add some Raspberry Zinger tea to make the mixture more moist.   Am I doing something wrong?  I love the red color of your hair and would like to achieve the same results.

amyhenna
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Re: liquids to mix with henna to push it to deep red

Ladytetsu, your hair is GORGEOUS!!! Wow. I want to do to my hair whatever you're doing!!! :-) I've recently started mixing my Purity (still using Purity I bought when it was available) with chamomile tea, letting it dye release, and then freezing it before use. I like the color I'm getting from this. I hope it looks like yours as it grows out!

Go henna!

 

ladytetsu
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Re: liquids to mix with henna to push it to deep red

wow, thank you both - sorry for the delay, I was visiting my mom in Texas.  :)  I loooooooove my hair, really, if somebody wanted to hurt me bad they'd chop off my hair! :(

 

Diamond, I'd suggest patience and simplicity.  It can take a few treatments to really build up to that wicked dark color, but that's okay because once you get there it's permanent!  I've hennaed my full length at least a dozen times, although I was really happy starting about time 3, I just love the conditioning effects of the full-length treatments.  My mix is just plain ol' henna - I've used Jamila, Yemeni, Celebration this last time, all sorts so dye content isn't really important if you're going to be a repeat offender, at least on my head - a little lj, not too much becasue then I dry out, and water.  Once it releases I'll often add a squirt of cheapo non-cone conditioner to the paste and stir it in, it helps with rinse-out and leaves my hair even softer.  I use 500g henna so there's a whole lot of paste and not much conditioner.  Pack it in, get bored, rinse it out.  I do not heat style my hair.  That's IT.  I repeat when my roots get too darn long, since I'm mousy grey-brown that's every 6-8 weeks or so anymore.  The secret to rich red is to keep at it.  You can't hurt your hair hennaing it, more is better for it until you get to that perfect color!  I did mine 3 times in 2 weeks once just to get it darker faster, and it felt like heaven afterwards!

conchenn
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Re: liquids to mix with henna to push it to deep red

ladytetsu:  I just henna'd my hair again (twice two weeks apart) hoping for the Dark of the Moon to come out deep ruby red but it still looks a bit orange-ish/brassy in sunlight.  Both times I used full strength lemon juice, following the instructions on the website.  I've been reading the forums a bit tonight and now I'm thinking maybe it's the lemon juice making it more orange than deep red?  I like the color it is now, it's okay, but I really want the dark ruby/garnet red like your gorgeous hair!  I have short hair right now, so I only used about 150g of henna, but how much lemon juice to water do you suggest?  

ladytetsu
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Re: liquids to mix with henna to push it to deep red

oh, jeepers, conchenn, I missed this post somehow, I'm sorry!  I hope I've helped you sort stuff out in the PMs.  I'm not a pro or anything, but for me, I use about halvsies lemon juice to water, but the last time I just used apple juice.  Bascially, you want enough acid in there to darken the color, but not enough to make your scalp dry out or itch.  I liked what the apple juice did, strong tea will work, or a good hearty splash of lj and finish with however much water you need.  The more acid, generally, the slower your release - so if you don't use a lot of acid be prepeared to test and goop faster.  If you do use a lot be prepared to let it sit possibly overnight.  I told you about checking for dye release, that's more key than a rote hour count as far as I can tell.  Really, the amount of acid is about what's best for your scalp - if your head is unhappy with too much, scale it back and test for relase a little sooner.  You'll still get great color!

ACWN
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Re: liquids to mix with henna to push it to deep red

so if you don't use a lot of acid be prepeared to test and goop faster. 

 

If by "goop" you mean apply (I like that term though, lol), I wouldnt worry TOO too much about how long it will take you unless you have butt length hair or longer. A strong brewed, COOLED tea mix will dye release fairly quickly (as soon as an hour for me), but it's not going to turn around and demise 15 minutes later. You have a good hour or two at least before it starts to demise, I think, if its left out at room temp.

 

And throwing it in the fridge will always make it last longer if you cant use it right when its ready. But remember to keep the plastic wrap pressed down tight on the henna's surface! If oxygen gets to the henna dye, it will oxidize and it wont bind to your hair.

 

 

Last thing... and if she went over this with you already, please disregard this part... but ladytetsu is right, acid has a lot to do with dye release... but so does temp. The colder you keep a mix, the slower it will dye release and the slower the dye will demise. And if you freeze it, it will stop entirely - but only ever freeze your paste when you have the start of dye release or right when you have it. Freezing then will make the dye stronger, but if you freeze before then it will actually make it weaker.

Any way! Sorry, went off track.

If you keep the paste too warm or use very warm liquid, it will speed up the dye release but it will also speed up the dye demise so we always recommend room temp or cold liquid. Slightly warm is okay, but you dont want it any warmer than your own body temp. You also dont want to let it sit in a room or area any warmer than 80 degrees F at MAX. Anything warmer and you're risking rapid dye release and demise before you ever think to check on the henna. And never on any hot surfaces as it could cause a hot spot in the henna.

conchenn
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Re: liquids to mix with henna to push it to deep red

ladytetsu: thank you, thank you! Your PM's cleared up a lot for me and were very helpful!

ACWN: thank you too!  I didn't know freezing the henna too soon would actually weaken it, I thought it would just slow down dye release.  I can't wait to henna my hair again now ^_^

ACWN
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Re: liquids to mix with henna to push it to deep red

Well, it technically does and for a little while we figured it was okay to freeze the paste before dye release. Basically just mix it and freeze it. But I think thats the problem with it, it slows down the dye release too much to cause proper dye release. Carrie did some experiments and found that mixed and frozen paste actually turns out slightly weaker, while mixed, released or partially released and then frozen paste comes out stronger.

 

When you freeze henna, it goes into a state of suspended animation of sorts, so it would make sense that as un-dye released henna gets colder and begins to freeze solid that the dye release also slows down and then stops entirely at some point. At least thats what I figure what happens.

Danmara
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Re: liquids to mix with henna to push it to deep red

 Wow Ladytetsu, your hair is gorgeous!!! (so are you btw. Don't be down about your weight you are BEAUTIFUL!!!).

My hair is almost  that shade but I don't think it's quite that red. It's darker and a little more brownish (in the sun though it is that bright...maybe it is the same shade!)

Which henna do you use and how long have you been doing it?

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