Can I use drug store dyes on top of Henna, or at least to do the root touch up?

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hott.stuff
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Can I use drug store dyes on top of Henna, or at least to do the root touch up?

I had golden brown hair, and then I used golden brown henna dye, to get my hair dyed the same colour, just brighter, but it turned red, so then I used Godrej Nupur 100% natural henna, and it still didn't dye my roots.  I seriously hate henna. I wish I never used it... ever! So now I'm stuck with my auburn hair, which I'm not too badly disgusted... but my roots have shown already and I want to dye it before September.

So basically can I use any red hair dye from the drug store or go to a salon to do it? Like go to my local drug store, and buy a l'oreal superior preference or l'oreal feria dye?

Please help! The Henna never dyed over my naturally dark dark brown/black hair.

ACWN
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Re: Can I use drug store dyes on top of Henna, or at least ...

Real henna does not come in "golden brown", it only comes in one color. Red. If you used a brand that comes in colors you used one of two things.... Real henna cannot and will never be able to lighten your naturally dark hair. It cant.

 

1. Premixed henna - this contains henna, but it also contains several other plant dyes to produce different, natural shades. This will only make your hair darker, never lighter. It may or may not be safe to use chemical dyes over it.

 

2. Compound henna - this isnt henna, or very little of it is. Basically its just a bunch of chemicals and metallic salts with just enough henna in it to be labeled as such. This often comes in a paste form and is available in natural colors and non-natural (green, blue, etc). This may or may not change your hair color from darker to lighter (not sure). This is not even remotely safe to use chemical dyes over and is the reason henna is a four lettered word to stylists.

 

The only way to know if your hair is safe to use chemical dyes over is to purchase some from the drug store and apply to a bit of hair harvested from your brush or snipped from the back of your head where no one will see.

If your hair sizzles, smokes, melts, or turns weird colors... it is not safe. Applying chemical dyes over this would result in the same thing and some pretty nasty chemical burns.

chrisg
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Re: Can I use drug store dyes on top of Henna, or at least ...

Quick answer- Yes

But then you would have to use a considerably darker colour than you anticipated, because otherwise you would

1. Darken the lengths that have already henna on them (chemical dye adds on top)

2. Get a completely different shade on the virgin hair because chemical dyes bleach a little as well (but not the henna!)

I would suggest one of the following:

1. Dye the roots with the chemical dye in a shade as close as possible to the lengths, then followed by 5-10 minutes on the lenghts. This may still not get the perfect result but evens out any differences. You can repeat this process as much as you like until your lengths have grown out.

2. Or you can figure out what went wrong with your previous dyes and use henna or a hennamix for your entire hair to correct the shade. A hennagloss might do the trick.

I suspect you either used some prefabricated hennamix that was´nt good quality or did something wrong with the instructions. This product for example does not contain 100% henna:

http://tinyurl.com/3bxtbkb

Read here on different "hennas":

http://www.hennaforhair.com/science/index.html

Take a look at the different shades here at the bottom of this page and decide then what you want to do!

http://www.hennaforhair.com/mixes/index.html

chrisg
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Re: Can I use drug store dyes on top of Henna, or at least ...

Oh, just saw ACWN doing posting at the same time :-)

xyz
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Re: Can I use drug store dyes on top of Henna, or at least ...

Hotstuff--

I'm sorry to hear that you "seriously hate henna".  Unfortunately, the products you used (at least the first one) were most definitely not pure henna, the kind we discuss on this forum. 

I see you got good replies already, I just wanted to add that regardless of what you decide to do next, please do not use L'oreal Feria.  That particular brand is very harsh and more likely to react weirdly with other dyes.

I wish you luck!

hott.stuff
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Re: Can I use drug store dyes on top of Henna, or at least ...

Oh alright :) I wont use Feria.

I went to sally's and bought this dark auburn reddish hair dye, with 30 volume peroxide.. is that okay to use on the roots? A lot of people are confusing me SO much and I'm getting really mad now :( 

So can someone just tell me a YES or NO answer with a brief explanation?? O_O PLEASE!!!!!!!!

ACWN
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Re: Can I use drug store dyes on top of Henna, or at least ...

If your roots have no indigo, yes.

 

If your length is darker than the color you picked up, do not let the chemical dye touch your length.

hott.stuff
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Re: Can I use drug store dyes on top of Henna, or at least ...

Um what do you mean no indigo? x]

Anyways, my hair color not at the roots is auburn I guess, like it's a reddish brown, and the dye I bought at Sally's is this colour.

http://www.sallybeauty.com/haircolor/SBS-124656,default,pd.html

It's "close" to my hair colour, I don't know if it's darker, or lighter, but I bought 30 volume creme developer from the same brand (AGE brand).

Anyways, I'm just wondering if it's actually able to be used over henna -.- and on the sheet of paper that is in the tiny box from the dye says "DO NOT USE ON HENNA" so I'm like WTF?

The lady was kind of worried selling me this, and she said I could return it because I don't think she'd want me to go to the store again with green hair x]

Should I just do a strand test first then?

ACWN
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Re: Can I use drug store dyes on top of Henna, or at least ...

Gah, my bad... I got your post and someone else's mixed up. Its been a long day at work dealing with a bunch of butthead dogs (I work at a pet salon).

 

Go ahead and reread my first reply. The reason why it says "do not use on henna" is because of compound henna and the reasons I mentioned. Its also the reason why the lady was worried.

 

Strand test, but I very honestly would not put it on your hair if I were you. The "golden brown henna" you used is probably not safe.

hott.stuff
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Re: Can I use drug store dyes on top of Henna, or at least ...

That's okay x] Dealing with pets are a lot of work :( I have 2 dogs at home, and bath time is annoying when it comes to that time of the month -.-

So it's okay to do a strand test maybe? x] I'll just take a strand of hair and cut it off and put it on :)

The golden brown henna, idk if it was actually golden brown O_O since my golden brown hair dye (L'Oreal TB63) dye I used was golden brown, and the "golden brown" henna turned my golden brown dyed part red, but not the roots so sometimes I wonder if it's actually compound henna, or just henna mixed with a bunch of other plant dyes O_O it's "Noorani" brand, and it said ammonia free, and all natural o_o.

Anyways, I bought the godrej 100% rajasthani henna, and it had like all the herbs ie: jatamansi, shikakai, aloe vera, henna etc, and it was 150 grams, and I put in half of that (75 g) approx, and put it mostly at the roots, and then after that, I just kept on applying it over and over again on the rest of my hair, and then waited for 4 hours... I mixed it with water, and I thought people would usually mix it with tea, or lemon juice, but the lady was like "oh no you don't have to do that, just put in water and then mix."

So I did that, and thats all. My roots didn't change, and then I found out that henna cannot lighten hair. So I'm starting to wonder, if Henna never works on hair darker than medium brown then?

ACWN
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Re: Can I use drug store dyes on top of Henna, or at least ...

Heh, I have 4 dogs that I own, and my family has another 8. Guess who gets to bathe them?

 

Yes, its fine to strand test so long as the strand is NOT on your head. If your hair does anything besides change color, its not safe. I still personally wouldnt, even if it the test comes out okay. But then again, that comes from not knowing either of the hennas you used (I dont really trust any henna beside the stuff sold by mehandi.com).

 

Any brand can say "all natural" or "organic" or what have you. Henna is not tightly controlled, so that gives a lot of companies free reign to put whatever they want into their stuff with only enough henna to let them use it in the label. And people think its safe when it may not be.

 

Godrej is a premixed brand and is off topic, but thats also why you used water - other plant dyes require different methods of dye release and some dont get along with acids (tea, lemon juice, etc).

 

While henna will not change the color of darker hair, it will still give the benefits - strengthening, conditioning, and shine.

hott.stuff
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Re: Can I use drug store dyes on top of Henna, or at least ...

lool I'm guessing you do x]

I never really order anything online haha the only thing I ordered was my iphone 4 off of apple :) 

Anywayss, what do you suggest I do then?? Would I have to wait for my hair to grow out or something? :( That will take a long time :( and yeah that's probably true :( the henna for hair website said that some brands don't even list the ingredients, so it's impossible to know then :( 

So then, is Godrej henna 100% natural? Like I can use the AGE beautiful brand dye, and peroxide on? The only brands I used was the first one called Noorani, and it had different colours of dyes, but it never did anything to my hair so I'm guessing it wasn't a compound henna? And the 2nd was Godrej.

haha I don't think I will ever go back to using Henna x] it's probably a lot better for people who have medium brown and lighter hair colour to use it, since they will have a better colour change :) since my hair wont :(

ACWN
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Re: Can I use drug store dyes on top of Henna, or at least ...

I dont know if Godrej is or not, but the problem is is that you still used that "colored" henna... even if you apply a henna you know is 100% pure and 100% safe over a compound henna, its not going to change the fact that your hair still has those metallic salts and such on/in it, and it will still react to chemical dyes.

 

Strand test, and I would only ever do your roots with chemical dye until all that hair is trimmed off.

xyz
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Re: Can I use drug store dyes on top of Henna, or at least ...

To answer your question--

"So I'm starting to wonder, if Henna never works on hair darker than medium brown then?"

This is a picture of pure henna on black hair

http://www.hennaforhair.com/mixes/ixchel/

Henna on brown/black hair ("darkest brown")

http://www.hennaforhair.com/mixes/angieg/

Here, henna on color treated dark brown (color treated)

http://www.hennaforhair.com/mixes/vanessas/

And finally, on what appears to be medium brown hair

http://www.hennaforhair.com/mixes/jessica/

As you see, it all depends on the color you start with.  Henna does not lighten, but even the blackest hair looks shinier, warmer, and appears to reflect more light, which is enough change for a lot of people. 

 

hott.stuff
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Re: Can I use drug store dyes on top of Henna, or at least ...

Oh I see, yeah the first link with someone with black hair, it turned out a lot more black, and a lot more shinier :) 

Mine was golden brown, and then it turned dark red the same color as the L'Oreal RP04 hair colour on black hair.

And now my hair looks reddish brown or auburn I guess that's how they call it? It's dark auburn.

xyz
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Re: Can I use drug store dyes on top of Henna, or at least ...

hotstuff

You want a short and sweet answer we can't give you because you used (at least once) a pre-mixed henna that is very different from what the kind we speak about on this forum.  The most direct answer I can personally give you is NO, do NOT use anything that lightens.  Bleach/peroxide can react badly with salts, minerals, and chemical additives common in compoud hennas.  If you must dye, you would probably be a little safer going darker, not lighter.  Strand test before you proceed!

hott.stuff
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Re: Can I use drug store dyes on top of Henna, or at least ...

Oh, okayy

The henna I used doesn't seem to be premixed though O_O it was in a natural green coloured powder, and I mixed it with water for a long time until it came to a smooth-like honey consistancy since that's what the instructions said.

And even then, my hair turned out red after when I applied it on my golden brown dyed hair... and not my roots.

So I wonder if it was just natural henna put into a package, and then put into a box that said "golden brown henna" since I thought metallic salts would change the hair color too when it's mixed with henna?

ACWN
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Re: Can I use drug store dyes on top of Henna, or at least ...

If it comes in colors, its premixed or compound. Henna does not come in colors, plain and simple.

hott.stuff
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Re: Can I use drug store dyes on top of Henna, or at least ...

Oh I see. So that is not compatible with chemical dyes? Even when Godrej 100% Natural hair dye has been applied over it?

ACWN
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Re: Can I use drug store dyes on top of Henna, or at least ...

Like I said in my other post, even if you apply a henna that you know without a doubt is 100% pure and 100% safe henna over it, it doesnt change the fact that it was put over a (possible) compound henna. It doesnt make it any more safe, those salts and other things are still in your hair and those things will still react.

 

 

Strand test, but again, even if it shows no negative results, I still wouldnt put it on my length, personally, if I were in your place. But thats just me.

chrisg
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Re: Can I use drug store dyes on top of Henna, or at least ...

How long since the last conventional dye?

chrisg
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Re: Can I use drug store dyes on top of Henna, or at least ...

They are usually put in there to boost the dyes, yes. Same as in "Feeria", in this case iron salts.

The reason why your roots didnt take dye from the henna I cannot tell, but the lenghts probably had a more porous structure from the previous chemical dyes and may therefore have absorbed more dye. Or perhaps you were not careful enough with applying on the roots. Its not the same as with conventional dyes. The stuff has to touch the roots thickly at all times and must not dry out. Whith conventional dyes it will be enough for the dye to sort of suspend and travel between the hair strands like in a straw. This wouldnt be enough for henna to deposit dye. Or your roots were just abit darker and their melanine dominates over the henna.

Like I said before, an ash or golden BLONDE dye would correct the red. They typically contain 6% peroxie (at least here in Europe) which wouldnt harm your hair more than neccessary. It would make your overall tone somewhat darker, though. I think this may be unavoidable, what ever you decide to to about it.

ACWN
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Re: Can I use drug store dyes on top of Henna, or at least ...

chris- very dark brown to black hair (like what hott stuff's roots are) will not change color as henna's dye is translucent and cannot lift/lighten color. This is why their hair didnt change.

And because hott stuff used a brand that could be compound, we really do not recommend using chemical dyes over it without first strand testing extensively. Using chemical dye over compound henna that contains metallic salts will result any of the following: sizzling, smoking, the hair melting (sometimes into a solid mass), chemical burns (if applied to hair on the head) or weird colors.

This is why henna is a four letter word to hair stylists, they've been told that ALL henna will do this - pure or not.

chrisg
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Re: Can I use drug store dyes on top of Henna, or at least ...

ACWN, I thought they were dark/medium golden brown roots. Those would have shown something from the henna. As for the sizzling - I wouldnt have given the advice if it hasnt been tryed by myself and others whithout any damage. Everybodies hair is different though, and there are no guarantees for anything. And the products used in the US also differ sometimes from the ones in Europe where I live, even the same brands. A test strand is good advice anyhow.

I worked some three years with hair colors as a beauty consultant for a large international brand, and got a lot of experience whith their and other hair dye products, also in combination whith herbal colors. It might be comforting for you to know, that at least the manufacturers of these products have good knowledge about how things work :-). As for hairdressers, its a sad story in general. I have had to make my own experiences whithout their assistance. This is really to bad and very confusing for alot of people.

ACWN
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Re: Can I use drug store dyes on top of Henna, or at least ...

No, hott stuff had dyed their hair golden brown, but their roots are naturally very dark. Its okay to put chemical dyes over premixed brands (stuff that contains henna, indigo and other plants all in the same package) most of the time - unless theres indigo involved and you're looking to go lighter, then you get moldy green unless you're REALLY lucky.

 

Compound henna, which is "henna" that contains metallic salts (and probably other various chemicals) and often comes in paste form, and offers natural colors as well as unnatural ones (crayon red, blue, green, etc etc), however are NOT safe as many past and current members have found through experiments.

 

Unfortunately, henna (as I've said), isnt tightly controlled here and a lot of companies have no problems putting a product out there that is as harmful, if not more so, than chemical box dye and calling it "natural henna". As a result we have to be extremely careful about what we do and dont recommend as safe to people on the forum. It could very well be just fine, but because there is that chance that something potentially dangerous we have to lean to the side of "cautious and paranoid". Better to be paranoid now than sorry later.

hott.stuff
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Re: Can I use drug store dyes on top of Henna, or at least ...

um, how do you know if the premixed henna contains indigo? and I just want to keep the roots the same as the rest of the colour, but the colour I bought for my roots is this one

http://www.sallybeauty.com/haircolor/SBS-124656,default,pd.html

and the 30 volume bleach. Is that bad to use? You said that it's okay to put it over premixed henna, but it's not okay to go lighter. Like I don't want to go lighter until all of the henna no longer is on my hair. Like I just want to keep the roots the same colour as the rest of my henna coloured hair.

chrisg
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Re: Can I use drug store dyes on top of Henna, or at least ...

I understand where youre heading with this and the method as such is correct. But with this you would perpetuate a possibly bad hair quality that will go on in the lenghts as they keep growing out. Also I think it will be very difficult to keep the treatments to the roots, and not all over the place. This is not easy doing it at home.

 

Another thing is, that with that dark hair it will contain alot of red (appearing orange/yellow) pigments by itself, underneath the dark pigments. That in combination with "unknowns" in the lengths alot of unwanted things can happen. Personally I would keep it simple and stay away from the strongest bleaches. I would put some correcting pigments in the lenghts and wait till its all grown out. This would be the safe route. But Its your hair and your decision.

 

Make a strand test from the lengths and check how that goes. The bleaches are risky.

xyz
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Re: Can I use drug store dyes on top of Henna, or at least ...

hot.stuff

I think we really can't advice you more than we already have as everyone's hair is different and we don't have experience using the products you chose.  There are sound reasons for us to be overly careful:  a bad combination of dyes and you might end bald, or worse.  Again, I (and the other posters) strongly suggest you do NOT use anything that lightens (on your roots or length), and if you must recolor, use a dye that matches your darker ROOTS and has no peroxide or ammonia.  Strand test carefully and proceed at your own risk.  Good luck!

hott.stuff
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Re: Can I use drug store dyes on top of Henna, or at least ...

Thanks for the advice :) I went to Sally's and did ask them if the semi-permanent or demi permanent hair colour would work since I wouldn't need to mix it with developer x] but they said it's usually meant for going "darker" not lighter. So I guess I'm stuck waiting it outt.

hott.stuff
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Re: Can I use drug store dyes on top of Henna, or at least ...

Okay :)

well I just spoke to a friend of mine, and she says to wat at least 6 months before dying, since Henna will burn your hair and scalp x] her parents are indian hair stylists who work with henna and chemical dyes :)

But I'll try the strand test anywayss :D

ACWN
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Re: Can I use drug store dyes on top of Henna, or at least ...

Not trying to insult your friend or anything, but thats not true of real henna (which is different than what we've been talking about, mind you). Pure, real henna is not only safe to use before or after chemical dyes, but its also GOOD for the hair. It will not burn your hair or your scalp.

 

What I'm guessing they're talking about is probably compound henna, which is exactly what we've been trying to tell you before. It also doesnt matter how long you wait... 6 months or 6 years.... those salts and other things will still be in your hair and the only safe thing to do is trim it off as it grows in.

hott.stuff
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Re: Can I use drug store dyes on top of Henna, or at least ...

I see. I had golden brown dyed hair before (as I have said a million times before) and then I used "golden brown henna" to dye my golden brown dyed hair.

Then it turned my hair red. It didn't seem to make my hair explode or sizzle, or melt etc...

and I always take abouth an inch off my hair every month or so, so after a while all the henna will be gone since I will be cutting all the strands off all the time.

ACWN
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Re: Can I use drug store dyes on top of Henna, or at least ...

Using compound henna over chemical dye isnt going to cause a reaction, its using chemical dye over compound henna that causes it.

hott.stuff
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Re: Can I use drug store dyes on top of Henna, or at least ...

Oh I see.

So that's why my hair didn't go green or anything. So now I'm basically going to have to grow it out, and just get regular trims?

:( That's going to take forever :( 

Can you use pure henna itself just for conditioning treatments and then use chemical dyes? All on pure virgin hair?

ACWN
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Re: Can I use drug store dyes on top of Henna, or at least ...

Yes, its safer if you just let it grow out and trim it off.

 

As I said, pure henna is safe to use before or after chemical dye, but remember that it IS going to result in a color change to your hair. The conditioning comes from the dye, cant have one without the other. And you cannot go from henna red to golden brown. Henna binds to the keratin of the hair, this makes it nearly impossible to chemically lift or bleach out.

 

If you want the conditioning effects, but no color... try zizyphus or cassia. Zizyphus will give no color at all. Cassia gives a weak, yellow color thats usually only seen on white or gray hair. It may add more golden tones to your hair if you dye it golden brown.

Carrie
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Re: Can I use drug store dyes on top of Henna, or at least ...

You can do a strand/hairball test and find out if there is a bad reaction with any specific chemical treatment.

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