cassia+henna on brown+white hair

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hairfix
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cassia+henna on brown+white hair

I'm completely new to this and have been reading until my head is spinning!  I would really appreciate some advice before I take the plunge.

Current Hair:  medium/dark brown with growing number of white hairs (never coloured)

Objective:  keep the same brown while blending the grey ---a SUBTLE change only!!!

Proposed Method:  8 parts cassia, 1 part henna, camomile tea + some apple cidar vinegar for acid

The cassia/henna ratio is based on Evie's mix, though she is "dirty dishwater blonde" not white.  Catherine's combo of 4 parts cassia to 1 part henna is too bright strawberry blonde for me, so this seems to make sense.

Soooo, here are my questions:

1.  For those of you who have played around with cassia/henna, does this sound reasonable?  Do you think that the white would blend without being too banana yellow or orange orange?

2.  What about longer term?  If the cassia washes out after about a month, would that leave the orange of the henna glowing brightly?  If I repeated the same after a month, would the henna just keep intensifying?  The orange look is not for me!!

3.  What am I not aware of as a first-timer?  Pitfalls/downsides/longterm....?

Thanks so much in advance--I really need advice!!!!

Jen
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Re: cassia+henna on brown+white hair

 I think you could use some buxus in your mix, or as part of a gloss afterword to give you the 'dirty' part of dirty dishwater blond. What you've got could be too yellow to blend well, depending on how your hair takes up the dye.

I'm going to let someone else give you more detailed help. Light colors are not my stong point.

Carrie
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Re: cassia+henna on brown+white hair

In your situation I'd probably use about your same ratio of cassia to henna, and add an equal amount of indigo (because it doesn't fade as reliably as buxus) as the henna portion. This will give a golden-to-ashy blonde color on the gray. The color will be light, not the same as your med/dark brown hair.

Here are some threads you may find useful:

www.hennaforhair.com/forum/index.php

www.hennaforhair.com/forum/index.php

www.hennaforhair.com/forum/index.php

 

hairfix
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Re: cassia+henna on brown+white hair

Hi Carrie, just hoping to reread once more the threads that you so helpfully provided before but now when I click on them they are "FORBIDDEN".  Aargh!  Is there a time limit or something??

Thanks again!

Carrie
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Re: cassia+henna on brown+white hair

The old forum is taken down for tech support reasons sometimes, I think that is going on now. I don't know when it will be available again, sorry.

hairfix
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Re: cassia+henna on brown+white hair

Thanks so much, it makes sense about adding indigo to the mix.  I was (am!) a bit leery about indigo, having read about both the fast fading (leaving orange of henna) and the buildup (leaving black).  I don't think that I have seen any pictures of the cassia/henna/indigo combo.

I've read and reread the links you mentioned, which are very helpful.  I hadn't considered a gloss, but I'll have to do more research into it now!  I guess it could be done with with cassia/henna/indigo as well.

Reading about the glosses, I see there are different bases, probably with different effects?

- conditioner would be really oily on hair (does it ever come out???)

- yogurt would be more acidic/drying?

- flaxseed/pectin gel would be...?

So much to learn!!  Thanks again for taking the time to sort out this newbie :o)

Carrie
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Re: cassia+henna on brown+white hair

Conditioner rinses out very easily. Yogurt is moisturizing, not drying - it might inhibit indigo uptake on gray to some degree but I have not tested that. Flaxseed or pectin gel works quite well with indigo per report, and is not drying. I have not used those myself but our member xyz has used pectin a lot with henna/indigo mixes on gray hair.

Here is pic of my hair with very dilute henna/indigo (very little henna and indigo, mostly cassia or conditioner as the base) - the very lightest hairs you see here are my grays - they came out blonde with this mix: 

http://www.flickr.com/photos/39335752@N04/4309965761/in/set-72157623088472780

Here are some experiments I did on white mohair, which takes the dyes a little differently than most human gray hair does (gray human hair can be a bit dye resistant as far as indigo uptake)- just to give you some ideas about how different mixes may work for you: 

http://www.flickr.com/photos/39335752@N04/3713939746/in/set-72157619485710101

hairfix
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Re: cassia+henna on brown+white hair

I thought I posted again last night, but it seems to have disappeared into cyberspace!  Anyway, thanks for your advice and pics, it really helps with the visualization.

I had no idea that glosses would turn your hair a "scary green" for a few days, yikes!  Is there a way around that?

And if the henna and indigo aren't mixed well enough, and the indigo ends up alone in places, could it end up creating a longer-lasting blue/green effect?

Thanks again, I REALLY appreciate your guidance and the time commitment that you are obviously making to this site :o) 

Carrie
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Re: cassia+henna on brown+white hair

Mohair doesn't take the dyes *exactly* like hair does - they probably take indigo more easily than hair, but I once got a greenish tinge on my ash blonde roots temporarily, gone within a day. That's just how indigo behaves when it dominates over the henna. If it didn't dominate, the results would be more neutral to reddish after the dye oxidizes in your hair to its final color. The only way around it is to shoot for a warmer color with less effect from indigo.

Yep, you can get splotchy color if you don't mix well, but hair that is dyed with just indigo (no henna) does tend to fade for the most part. There may be some residual lasting effect, I've seen it reported in a couple of cases.

mamaherrera
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Re: cassia+henna on brown+white hair

 Just a question about those mixes in your thread.  When you say 1 tsp of henna and 1 tsp indigo, in conditioner, do you mix them dry in the conditioner or dye release both first and then in conditioner?? I am refering to number 40 in your thread.  Also, how do you do the mix with pectin gel?

Carrie
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Re: cassia+henna on brown+white hair

#40 was dry powders mixed directly into conditioner and applied immediately for 1 hour. Because the conditioner was not very acidic (probably pH neutral though I did not test the pH) the dye release happened quickly.

I have not used pectin gel myself but here is a page describing it:  http://www.hennaforhair.com/mixes/annsophie/

xyz has used pectin gel often.

hairfix
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Re: cassia+henna on brown+white hair

Okay, that helps...and I think I've actually run out of questions for the moment!  I'll let you know how it all goes once the henna etc arrives.  Thanks again for your advice!

hairfix
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Re: cassia+henna on brown+white hair

Oop, more questions, about your quick-and-easy brown glosses.  For #39 & 42, where you just mention water, does that mean you didn't use anything else as a base (such as a conditioner)?  So you just would have made a thin, runny (& messy!) liquid instead of the "normal" hendigo paste used for a full treatment?

Do you remember the amounts you used for the bases (conditioner or water)?  That would be great to know, too!

Thanks again!

Carrie
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Re: cassia+henna on brown+white hair

The mixes you mention weren't excessively thin. I probably used about a Tablespoon or so of water or conditioner for each sample. The strands are small. The water mixes are not really a gloss I guess, since they're not very dilute, but they are a quick application. You could probably make some cornstarch gel to thicken a mix like these if you wanted to see what happens with a more dilute dye.

hairfix
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Re: cassia+henna on brown+white hair

Oh wow, so that's a lot stronger than the proportions mentioned in the FAQ section ("For a very dilute gloss, you might use 1 tsp of dye powder per cup of conditioner (or gel, etc). For a stronger gloss, you can use 1 to 2 Tbsp of powder.").  By any chance have you done any strand tests that were weaker? 

Thanks for being patient with all my questions... :oP

Carrie
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Re: cassia+henna on brown+white hair

I don't think I have done strand tests that were weaker, but I have done glosses on my own hair that were weak, like in the FAQ.

My first time using henna I put 1 tsp henna in a cup of conditioner and got a surprising amount of coppery/brassy yellow/orange on my blonde hair. I've also done indigo gloss (1 Tbsp per cup) on deep red hennaed hair and gotten purplish burgundy (really pretty! but it faded in a few weeks) and a strong buxus gloss (3 Tbsp per cup) on medium red for a slightly browner shade of red. A weak buxus gloss (1 Tbsp per cup)  didn't do anything. Here is the indigo gloss on hennaed hair:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/39335752@N04/5235507471/in/set-72157623088472780/

A time or two, I did my roots with a light brown/dark blonde gloss (1 tsp each of henna and indigo added directly to conditioner, applied for 30 minutes).

http://www.flickr.com/photos/39335752@N04/4309965761/in/set-72157623088472780

I have not done any weaker henna/indigo glosses on mohair strand tests, I don't think- just the ones I linked before, which were stronger glosses since my intention was to find something that would color gray hair to a medium brown.

 

mamaherrera
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Re: cassia+henna on brown+white hair

 wow that's impressive.  Do you think just doing a straight (no dye-release) hendigo in a conditioner would work for covering even those stubborn white roots, at least to a medium brown or something? ? that would be way better than doing full henna every two weeks.

Carrie
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Re: cassia+henna on brown+white hair

That's the thing, it probably will not work that well for someone with dye resistant gray. On my gray, it gave light coverage. Since you are having trouble even with full-strength hendigo I would not expect a diluted mix to work better for you.

hairfix
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Re: cassia+henna on brown+white hair

Question re conditioner used for a gloss:  I notice everywhere that people say to use a CHEAP conditioner.  Is this just for economy or is there an ulterior motive that I'm not grasping?  I just bought a cheap one and the smell is overpowering for my allergies (not to mention the ingredients being a bit questionable I think!).  Thanks!

hairfix
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Re: cassia+henna on brown+white hair

...and if doing a gloss with yogurt, is the yogurt supposed to be cold/room temperature/warm....?  So many things that are probably obvious to you guys but that are mysterious to newbies:  I'm very grateful for all your patience as I work my way through the experimentation phase!  Thanks :o)

Carrie
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Re: cassia+henna on brown+white hair

RE cheap conditioner - you don't want one with lots of fats, oils or silicones. Just a plain old water-based one. Having a lot of fragrance can help cut the smell of henna/indigo but not everyone likes fragrance so I hear ya. Mehandi sells a conditioner that is not cheap but I'm betting it isn't loaded with synthetic fragrance either.

with yogurt it does not matter what temp it is.

Jen
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Re: cassia+henna on brown+white hair

 ZERO synthetic fragrance. Just natural Lavender EO.

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