Henna/Indigo 4 hours grays still look orange

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hennaheadnewbie
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Henna/Indigo 4 hours grays still look orange

 I just rinsed out my henna/indigo combo strand test on my head.  So far, my gray hair still looks orange (and this is over previous pure henna with cocoa powder added).  I also don't seem to be getting 100% gray coverage at the roots though I really pushed the henna/indigo into my roots. 

Will the grays darken at all to a brown?  I thought I would come out with brunette using henna and indigo both (it was about 50/50 as far as I could tell...henna was made previous with cocoa powder added and frozen and indigo was a small sample I got from Mehandi so I guesstimated on the measurements and did it by eye)

I'm a little worried because this is my second try and still I have orange/copper on the grays, though this time the copper is not as bright.

Any suggestions?

I am hoping to have my hair looking pretty again by the holidays :)

 

hennaheadnewbie
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Re: Henna/Indigo 4 hours grays still look orange

 One other thing I'm curious about as well....the pdf on the site for brunette using henna and indigo says NOT to wait for dye release on the indigo and combine them both.  I was looking at someone else's mix on the site and she combined her indigo with HOT water and waited 20 minutes before adding to the henna mixture.  So I followed her suggestions and then saw the pdf afterwards...which is correct?

I also forgot to dampen my hair :(  So it was applied to dry hair.

I also by nature have more "cool" coloring, so my hair naturally when it wasn't so gray, is more "ash", though it has red highlights in the sun.  So not sure if I should add amla as well?  I'm at a loss.  I'm feeling a bit defeated tonight because it seems all I'm getting on my gray is orange/copper and not brunette even with the indigo.

Carrie
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Re: Henna/Indigo 4 hours grays still look orange

 Have you seen this FAQ about covering gray?   forums.hennapage.com/node/22

I have always mixed indigo with warm (not hot) water and then used it immediately.  How long is your application time?  5-6 hours seems to be working best on stubborn gray. 

Carrie
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Re: Henna/Indigo 4 hours grays still look orange

 Also - you did cover it airtight, and keep it warm with a hat or scarf, right?

hennaheadnewbie
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Re: Henna/Indigo 4 hours grays still look orange

 Hi Carrie, thank you for your answer.

The application took maybe 5 minutes as I was only doing a small portion of strands near my face.  I am doing this as a test before doing my whole head so I can know what works.  I left the mixture on for 4 hours before rinsing and conditioner washing.

I did use hot water instead of warm to mix the indigo (as another customer had recommended that in her "mixes" section and waited about 20 minutes for dye release before mixing with the pre-released henna/cocoa mixture...so maybe that's a problem there.  So I should mix the indigo with warm water and then mix it into the henna immediately?  Not wait for dye release?

I was reading another customer's experience where she used hot water and waited 20 minutes for dye release and then mixed, but I see in the website literature they recommend mixing the indigo with water and then using immediately and NOT waiting for dye release.  I had thought that doing that the indigo color then would not be valid?

I did wrap my strand in plastic wrap and sealed it pretty well, though it's much harder to get the right environment when just doing a few strands.  I didn't put a cap on this time.  I should have done that.

I also saw that you answered my other post regarding the henna/cocoa mixture only being half henna.  So this may be a problem then as well due to proportions.  Will my using straight henna and indigo (50/50) then return a better, brunette result?  I'm afraid now as the 1/2 henna made my white hairs so orangey/copper/Bozo the clown.  This time with the indigo they are much less "orange" and more coppery light brown, but still too warm/orange tinged.

So I guess my questions, going forward, are:

*What do I do to get a nice brunette color (medium to medium-dark brunette) on my gray/white hairs?  I'm about 70% gray on top and 30-50% throughout the rest of my hair.  My hair has not been colored in a year.

*Do I need to add amla to the mix?  As a kid, my hair was medium to dark brunette.  As I got older, I did process with color, perms, etc.  When my hair is in the sun, it does have some warmth and red to it when the sun shines on it...not sure if that's due to past process or just that my natural hair has some natural warmth.  My skin is neutral/cool.  I look my best in clothing that is cool red, black, pure white, hot pink, cool blue...all cooler colors.  Most of my makeup colors are cooler...rose colored blush, plum or mauve lip colors...etc.  When I was doing demi-permanent hair color from a box, I was using a light ash brown over my brunette because neutral colors warmed my hair too much.  Now, of course I am much more gray so the light would probably have been too light.  But I did tend towards more ash colors in chemical hair color.  But if I go too dark and too ash, then it's too harsh against my light skin.  What do you suggest?

*Should I juse use pure henna and pure indigo (no cocoa) and do a 50/50 on that instead?  My biggest fear is too much orangey red.  Orange color, too warm a color sallows out my skin so I look too yellow.  Will using the straight henna without the cocoa, yield even more orange/red or will it simply be deeper?  I was using the Twilight henna and I've also tested with the henna from the medium brunette for gray hair kit, which listed an even higher lawsone content.

*When I did the indigo test on my inner arm, I left it on for 3 hours before washing it off.  It only left a very faint bluish stain and is already fading to almost nothing...but in the container I mixed it in, there was blue residue, so I know that the color dye released.  I thought I would have a much bluer stain on my inner arm.

*If it's suggested that I also add amla for better results...less copper/red, etc. do I skin test that the same way?  Just add a little water to the powder, apply to my inner arm and wait and hour and rinse?  If no reaction, I'm good to go?

Jen
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Re: Henna/Indigo 4 hours grays still look orange

 Your color may darken some as it oxidizes over the next few days. Also, as Carrie said, make sure you've tried all the tips here: forums.hennapage.com/node/22 There's lots of stuff you haven't mentioned that you could try like adding a bit of salt to the indigo, pretreatments of your hair to make it more prepared to take up the dye, and as a last resort a two step process.

Carrie
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Re: Henna/Indigo 4 hours grays still look orange

 If you want a very dark brown without warmth (red/orange tones) then yes, use 20% amla in your henna portion of your mix. Use no other acid in this mix, just 4 parts henna, 1 part amla, and plain water. Let it sit for dye release about 8-12 hours. Test it on your palm to be sure you get an orange stain in 5 minutes before you use it. 

When using amla in your mix, you can use a mix with equal amount of henna paste and indigo paste, and it will still come out quite dark like a 2:1 indigo/henna mix, but without as much red highlight to the brown. Since you're a cool-toned person who is flattered by cool hair color and not by warmth, this is what I'd recommend, using the equal henna/indigo ratio with amla added to the henna. You will be leaving this on your hair for 5-6 hours. A shorter application time may not give enough time for you to get the dark brown color. You will need to keep the paste covered airtight while it's on your hair, and with a warm cap over that. Warmth during application helps you get better uptake. 

Pre-wash your hair with something strong like dish soap with a handful of baking soda added (yes, it's harsh, but if your gray hair is resisting the dye you need to break down that resistance). 

After you shampoo, mix indigo with room temp to warm water and a spoonful of salt per 100 gm, mix well. Add the freshly mixed indigo paste to the dye-released henna/amla paste and apply immediately. 

 

Carrie
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Re: Henna/Indigo 4 hours grays still look orange

 Since you have already patch tested with henna and indigo I do not think another patch test for the amla is needed, but you could test amla separately on your skin if you wish. Anything is possible but I haven't heard any reports of amla allergy. 

Carrie
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Re: Henna/Indigo 4 hours grays still look orange

 Your arm isn't the best place for a skin test regarding color of dye - your palm is better. We don't use skin to test for dye release with indigo, usually - this type of indigo is not intended for body art and doesn't stain skin with rich color like henna will, although it will stain fingertips if you neglect wear gloves during your application process. It will also stain fabric and bathroom surfaces like crazy so be careful to cover your surfaces and use old towels you don't mind getting stained. Henna will bleach out of fabric but indigo does not. 

You did prove your indigo is releasing color - great! but in the future if you want to test for dye in indigo, just take a little strip of paper towel and tuck one end into the bowl of indigo paste - you will see blue-green dye wicking up the dry part of the towel. 

hennaheadnewbie
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Re: Henna/Indigo 4 hours grays still look orange

 Thank you Carrie.  That's good to know.  I had worried that maybe my indigo wasn't releasing like it was supposed to on me personally because of the lack of a blue mark on my skin.  I'm glad to know this is normal :)

hennaheadnewbie
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Re: Henna/Indigo 4 hours grays still look orange

 Thank you Carrie for the great suggestions.

I am thinking of using a clarifying shampoo before I do it.  I'm a bit worried about the baking soda and dish detergent.  I did a baking soda wash not too long ago and my scalp felt a bit irritated after, so that would worry me doing so right before the henna/indigo.

I am not sure at this point if I should go for a more medium brown or a dark brown.  I'm 46, so our skin tone changes up a little with age and I worry if I go too dark, it may be unflattering and cause me to look pale.  I'm just not sure.  Would it help to post some photos?  This way I can give you an idea of my hair as a child and also when I colored with chemical color, etc, and now. 

I'm also not entirely sure of the difference between medium brunette and dark brunette.  I would consider myself probably somewhere in between those two.

So if I put plastic wrap on my head and then say a warm ski cap, that should do it?

So, from my understanding then, I would mix up the indigo with warm water and salt, and add it immediately to the henna mix (don't wait for dye release on the indigo?) and then apply?

Thanks again for your answers.  This helps a lot.  These are my first attempts with henna and indigo and it's taken me a long time and a lot of courage to get here (nearly a year)...as stupid as it sounds, I was so afraid of even trying henna or indigo.

hennaheadnewbie
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Re: Henna/Indigo 4 hours grays still look orange

 Thank you Jen.  I will watch it for the next 2 days and see.  I did just find that troubleshooting for gray coverage page yesterday, so I took a look at all of that.  I think I will add the salt next time and use a clarifying shampoo beforehand.  I used a moisturizing shampoo, so maybe that wasn't the best choice.  I'm not sure if the 2 step process would work as I already had henna on some of the hair I did yesterday which was bright orange and it toned down the orange, but did not make it brunette. 

hennaheadnewbie
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Re: Henna/Indigo 4 hours grays still look orange

 Kim Anderson's 3rd attempt results (at the bottom of her page at the link below), would be ballpark of what might look okay on me.  I'm going to post some pictures of myself soon to get some opinions.

http://www.hennaforhair.com/mixes/kimanderson/

It seems she has some red in her hair, but not a lot...it's more of a cool medium/dark brown that has some reddish highlights.

These were her directions for what she did:

This 3rd attempt is just what I wanted, a cool brownish-red!

The mix I used for these was 50% henna and 50% indigo, the henna mixed the night before with lemon juice, indigo mixed with HOT water about 20 minutes before it was needed.  When both showed signs of good dye release I mixed them together and applied them to my hair, and left it on for 3 hours.

She did not use amla, but it took her 3 attempts for her hair to get darker and not as red.  

Will the amla make my hair really dark?  Or just cooler with not as much red?

hennaheadnewbie
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Re: Henna/Indigo 4 hours grays still look orange

 Okay, I'm going to attempt to post some photos of myself to maybe help to how you more clearly my color in the past, color now and what I am hoping for with results.

Below is a picture of me in grade school.  I'm the one in the back with the green shirt on and long ponytails.  You can see how dark my hair was then:

http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j284/DKunesh/Debbieschool50sDayTrinity...

The photo in this link below shows my hair when I was using color a few years ago:

http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j284/DKunesh/2010December26-082032138.jpg

Now, on to the current photos.  The first ones show the amount of gray I have:

http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j284/DKunesh/Hair.jpg

The one below also gives you an idea of my gray/white mixed in with the virgin brunette of my hair

http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j284/DKunesh/2012November07-144246862.jpg

This is after my first henna/cocoa strand test.  You can see how orange it is:

http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j284/DKunesh/2012November04-110240625.jpg

This is today after my henna/cocoa/indigo combo strand test of yesterday.  You can see still a lot of orange, but not as bozo bright:

http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j284/DKunesh/2012November11-101422876.jpg

http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j284/DKunesh/2012November11-101118516.jpg

Now some of me so you can see how my hair looks different depending upon what I use in it...gel, mousse.  The one below I just pushed it all down straight to show the variances of color...gray/white, brunette and at the bottom the most color:

http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j284/DKunesh/2012November11-101403298.jpg

This pic was me this past Monday...with a cooler color on and my hair styled with a combination of mousee and gel and also still slightly wet, it looks more brunette, not much gray showing as it's still partially wet and it looks more of a dark brunette.  I am showing this to show that this is probably one of my best looks with this degree of brunette.  What do you guys think?

http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j284/DKunesh/2012November05-13190762.jpg

If possible as well, I may want to leave a longer streak of hair down the front a slightly different color...either the glittery white that I have or maybe a more reddish/brown streak just to add some interest with the rest of my hair more of a solid color most likely.

The photo below was taken this morning and show the contrast between the strand I redid with henna/cocoa and indigo added and the rest of my hair and also how warm it is against my skin:

http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j284/DKunesh/2012November11-101322829.jpg

I'll post more in the next thread....

 

 

 

hennaheadnewbie
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Re: Henna/Indigo 4 hours grays still look orange

 Okay, just a few more pics to give you a better idea:

 

The couple of photos below have me holding up the hair that is the bottom length...where the concentration of any real color is left...probably a combination of my own natural color and the hair dye I've used in the past...contrast this with the henna/indigo result and also my grays.  I'm a mess right now lol...Please help! :)

http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j284/DKunesh/2012November11-101502141.jpg

http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j284/DKunesh/2012November11-101533376.jpg

Me with darker hair closer to my natural color...chemical semi permanent dye

http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j284/DKunesh/DebbieChristmas2006Closeu...

The photo below was taken a few years back when I colored my hair with a more neutral/warm permanent color.  It doesn't look bad, but to me, probably not as good against my skin as the cooler/more ash color I originally had:

http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j284/DKunesh/DebbieElvisPiccloseup2.jpg

Okay, that should be enough photos I think to give a clearer picture.  I think, personally, that i probably look best with my hair between medium to medium dark brunette and probably with the cooler tones.  The last pic, though not awful, doesn't make my skin and features pop as much as the cooler hair colors.  What do you all think.  I am open to thoughts and ideas here because all I want is to go back to my old self and to feel and look pretty again :)

 

hennaheadnewbie
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Re: Henna/Indigo 4 hours grays still look orange

 For some reason, the direct links didn't show up (where you can just click on them), but if you highlight each link and then right click and choose "go to", you'll be able to see them :)  Thank you.

Carrie
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Re: Henna/Indigo 4 hours grays still look orange

 It may be that part of the reason Kim Anderson's hair is darker and less red in the last photo is that she had used the dyes 3 times at that point. The color will build up each time you use it (this is different from chemical color that contains peroxide and thus removes color and deposits color at the same time - plant dyes ONLY deposit color). That's why once you get the color you want on the length, you don't put any more dyes on the length and just touch up your roots as they grow in. 

I agree with you that a cooler color will be better on you. Amla in your henna/indigo mix will give your cooler, darker brown. If you want to try to get a cooler shade of brown that isn't as dark, you'll want to use some cassia in the mix which essentially dilutes the dyes (its own dye is very weak pale golden yellow). Perhaps as much as half cassia, and the rest would be your henna/amla/indigo mix. 

Carrie
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Re: Henna/Indigo 4 hours grays still look orange

 What I would consider truly ash (slightly greenish toned, with no red/orange) colors are not easy, and perhaps not possible, to achieve with plant dyes. When buxus (a teal green/blue dye) is available it can help with ashy tones of blonde and brown, but it won't be until the political situation in Yemen has stabilized so the U.S. can receive imports from there once again. Henna will always be the most powerful dye in the mix, and its red/orange sparkle will always be visible in bright sunlight unless you take the color all the way to black. That's the only way to extinguish the red twinkle completely. I agree with you, though, that a result like Kim Anderson's will probably look good on you. We just need to figure out what needs to change in your method to increase your indigo uptake. 

hennaheadnewbie
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Re: Henna/Indigo 4 hours grays still look orange

 I forgot to ask as well...do you consider Kim Anderson's result (her 3rd try) to be medium brown or dark brown.  To me, I think it's fairly close to my original haircolor.  So if I ordered a kit for gray hair for brunette, I'm not sure whether to get the medium or dark.  Or should I just stick with the Twilight, order indigo separately and possibly do the amla addition?   I was pretty dark haired as a kid.  But I don't want to go too dark as you can't lighten.

So should I maybe try the henna/indigo/amla combo first with hopefully better indigo uptake and if I end up still too reddish, then add cassia?  I noticed that Kim Anderson did not add any amla (or cassia).  To me, this is all still very confusing on how to get the result I want.

I think my biggest fear is doing this and my roots won't take anything but the rusty red color and then I won't be able to correct it.  It looks  quite ghastly on me ;)

hennaheadnewbie
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Re: Henna/Indigo 4 hours grays still look orange

 Thank you Carrie.  I agree...we just need to figure out what isn't working.  So is it completely possible for me to be  brunette again with the plant dyes?  

I feel kind of defeated right now as all I'm getting is rusty red. I don't want to do my whole head until I get this strand of hair correct as it actually looks much worse than the gray/brunette I have now as it completely clashes with my coloring.   I don't want to go back to chemical dyes (I never had a problem with them, but when I read about the ppd dangers and cancer connection, that's enough to sway me not to use it).

Family members have suggested I buy a box and just do it for now to feel better, but then I start the whole cycle all over again and I'm too scared because of ppd fears.

I don't mind a little bit of red in my hair as long as it's more of a deep mahogany type red and not this rusty orange color...so I'd settle for more brunette with some deeper red highlights in the sun.  As you said, Kim's final color seems like it would work well on me.

I need to check into cassia now as well as I'm not familiar with that.  Would I need to do a skin sensitivity for that as well?

I feel a little out of sorts because I have no idea what I'm doing lol...like a chemist without credentials. :)

Carrie
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Re: Henna/Indigo 4 hours grays still look orange

 I'd call Kim Anderson's colors a dark reddish brown. I think you can do this. Have you looked at the Troubleshooting Gray Coverage FAQ and incorporated those suggestions into your strand testing?  If a 1-step method doesn't work for you, a 2-step surely will. That would be henna first for about 2 hours, then rinse and apply henna/indigo. In some cases the gray hair is so dye resistant, a 2-step is necessary for adequate indigo uptake. But before you resort to that, try all the tips in the FAQ including using the amla, doing a prewash with baking soda, and so on.

EllenG
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Re: Henna/Indigo 4 hours grays still look orange

Hi HENNAHEADNEWBIE,

I was just reading your posts, and I think what you are trying to achieve is what I just did.  I used 50% henna and 50% indigo and added 25 grams of Amla.  On me it came out a medium brown with reddish highlights. It completely covered my gray, so my grays are no longer gray, more like reddish highlights.  I am going to try it again soon to darken the gray highlights.  Ellen 

hennaheadnewbie
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Re: Henna/Indigo 4 hours grays still look orange

 Thank you Ellen!  That does help.  You mention on your grays that you have reddish highlights...are they more of a cooler toned red and not orange?  My fear is that I have a LOT of gray/white, especially on the crown, and I don't want that to all turn out orange/red, but more of a brunette.  Did you get the Medium Brunette Kit for gray hair or order separately?  I have tried the Twlight henna so far, but not the kit.

EllenG
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Re: Henna/Indigo 4 hours grays still look orange

Hi,

I did not use the kit, I used Monsoon Henna, indigo and amla all purchased separately.  I have a lot of gray in my part area, it turned that area a lighter reddish brown.  The first day it was pretty orange but the next few days it calmed down to a nice brown.  It is now 2 weeks since I have done it and it is fading.  I like the color a lot now...but I know that in the next 2-3 weeks it will fade even more and I will have to do it again....The first thing to go is the part area...I can see that it is going to be constant maintenance.  I am allergic to PPD so I can not use Chemical Dyes....so this is my only choice.  If you want to see a photo I can send you one...by the way I am 47, and this color actually flattters my face beleive it or not....I was afraid to try it....but I have gotten compliments on it...Ellen

hennaheadnewbie
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Re: Henna/Indigo 4 hours grays still look orange

 Thank you Ellen.  I would love to see a picture if you wouldn't mind.  That would help me feel more confident going forward.  I still have more of an orangy red going on where I did my on-head strand test on one of my white/gray areas.  I also worry that if I get orange color on my grays I am going to freak out lol...because the areas I've done so far on my strand test have stayed more orangey and not mellowed out to brown.  That's great that you are getting compliments on your hair color :)  Sorry about your ppd allergy.  I've not experienced that, but read so much about it that I didn't want anything to do with the chemicals again.  Will you send the photo via pm?

EllenG
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Re: Henna/Indigo 4 hours grays still look orange

I sent a picture pm, not sure if it worked.

hennaheadnewbie
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Re: Henna/Indigo 4 hours grays still look orange

 Hi Ellen, the link to the picture you sent isn't working for some reason.  Could you re-send?  Thanks :)

EllenG
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Re: Henna/Indigo 4 hours grays still look orange

you may have to cut and paste it into your browser...try that

hennaheadnewbie
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Re: Henna/Indigo 4 hours grays still look orange

 Okay, I'm going to bite the bullet and buy the Medium Brunette kit for gray hair as others who have used it report that it left their hair a nice glossy brown (which is what I am after).  I am also going to order some amla for a cooler brunette, which I believe looks best on me.

I have a few questions.

1)  How much amla do I need?  The kit has 100 grams each of indigo and henna.  The amla comes in 25 grams and the next level is 100 grams.  If mixing the amla as my acidic ingredients with henna and water (I would use warm water?), how much of the amla do I need?

2)  As far as time to leave a henndigo on...I have heard everything from 6 hours to get maximum gray coverage, to, rinse off after 2 because after 2 hours the indigo stops working and your roots (gray/white) will be red.  What's accurate?

3)  To test the amla on my skin...would I just add a little warm water and apply immediately to my skin and then rinse off after an hour?  I think I may have used amla in other botanically based skincare products before, so it should be fine, but thought I'd test just to make sure.

Carrie
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Re: Henna/Indigo 4 hours grays still look orange

 For each 100 gm of henna, you need 20 to 25 gm amla. Mix henna, amla and cool water. Let it sit for dye release for 8-12 hours (shorter time if your room is extra warm). If you use warm water it may be ready almost immediately, but will not stay potent as long (this is not recommended). 

Most current information is that 5-6 hour application time gives best gray coverage with a henna/indigo mix. That would be my recommendation to you. The "2 hours tops" advice is now considered outdated. 

Your amla testing plan sounds fine to me. 

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Re: Henna/Indigo 4 hours grays still look orange

 Thank you Carrie!

On the 2 hour advice, a friend of mine called Mehandi just recently and was given this advice (to remove after 2 hours because the indigo stops working after the 2 hours and you end up with red), which confused me as I was told opposite (6 hours).  I did a strand test recently with some indigo and henna (but the henna also had cocoa powder added and was only 1/2 strength henna due to this) and I still turned out orange/red on the gray/white, so that scared me.  I had left my strand test on for 4 hours.

Also, when I did my strand test, I had a bit of tingly/cooling sensation on my scalp, but the longer I left the henndigo on, the less I felt it...so I assume that it wasn't a reaction as I assume a reaction would have gotten worse the longer I left it on?  I had done a skin sensitivity test for both henna and indigo separately and had no reaction to either that I could tell.  On my skin, the indigo had dried a bit and was hard to get off, so was a little red for a few minutes and went away.  Same thing with the strand test...I couldn't wrap the roots as I only did a small portion of hair on my head....so I think it dried on there.

Carrie
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Re: Henna/Indigo 4 hours grays still look orange

 I think a sensitivity reaction would get worse the longer the paste was on.

Letting the paste dry on your hair isn't good, it will keep the dye from working as well. It needs to be protected from air and kept warm and moist while it's on your hair.

As far as the 2 hours vs 5-6 hours advice, I can tell you customers are reporting better results with the longer applications of henna/indigo mixes on stubborn gray. If you don't have gray you may find a shorter application time works fine. 

quite frankly
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Re: Henna/Indigo 4 hours grays still look orange

 Hi.

I was just wondering how your hair came out in the end.  I read several of the replies and was hoping somehow it worked out well for you.

hennaheadnewbie
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Re: Henna/Indigo 4 hours grays still look orange

 Thank you for caring about my result.  I truly appreciate that.  I just redid a strand test today with the medium brunette for gray kit.  I added amla to the henna and distilled water.  Let is sit about 13 hours.  Mixed up the indigo and water and mixed immediately (1/2 henna, 1/2 indigo and 1/4 amla).  I applied that thickly to select strands in front (some that was orangey red and some previously untreated)...believe it or not...it looks like I finally got some brunette!  There is still more reddish brown at the grays, but we'll see how it oxidizes.  If all goes well, I will do a whole head.  My goodness...this has been months of experimentation.  But I'm so happy to see brunette finally.  I want to go back to feeling like my younger self again.  I'll try to post a photo soon.

hennaheadnewbie
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Re: Henna/Indigo 4 hours grays still look orange

 Forgot to add that I added a pinch of salt to the indigo when mixing and that I left the mixture on my hair 6 hours before rinsing and then just did a conditioner wash.

Jen
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Re: Henna/Indigo 4 hours grays still look orange

 Wonderful! It sounds like you're on your way!

Carrie
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Re: Henna/Indigo 4 hours grays still look orange

 YAY! I'm glad to hear you're having some success and I hope you'll follow up with us when you do your whole head! 

hennaheadnewbie
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Re: Henna/Indigo 4 hours grays still look orange

 Thank you Jen and Carrie.  To be honest, my heart dropped a little today as it seems some of the coppery red is appearing again, almost like the indigo is disappearing.  It's been close to 24 hours now since I rinsed (2 hours short of that).  I have not shampooed at all nor done anything other than dry my hair yesterday.  I did everything correctly....just shampooed hair, no conditioner, hair was damp, used clarifying shampoo beforehand, 1/2 indigo, 1/2 henna and 1/4 amla.  Left on for 6 hours, wrapped in saran wrap and a knit cap on top of that.  Why would my indigo start to disappear?  Am I doing something wrong?

Carrie
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Re: Henna/Indigo 4 hours grays still look orange

 I have no explanation for that if you haven't even gotten your hair wet since the time you rinsed it out. I've never heard of that happening and can't imagine why it would. Are you checking it under the same lighting conditions?

hennaheadnewbie
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Re: Henna/Indigo 4 hours grays still look orange

 I may have had a little freak out that was undeserved Carrie lol.  I thought it was getting redder, but then looked again later and I think it's still the same.  Sorry.  I'm still a bit nervous about all of this.  It still looks okay, but against the gray that is next to it, sometimes it appears warmer or more reddish brown.  I am planning on doing the whole rest of my head tomorrow.  I know that the leaflet that comes with the kid says that you may need to do the gray or gray roots several times to get the medium brown?

Jen
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Re: Henna/Indigo 4 hours grays still look orange

 Sometimes gray can be stubborn and take extra applications, espceially at the root, to get started, yes. Or try leaving the paste in 6 hours.

hennaheadnewbie
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Re: Henna/Indigo 4 hours grays still look orange

 Okay, doing my full head today.  I'm 4 hours into it with 2 more to go.  I have to admit, this is a disgusting process lol.  The stuff smells like a combination of peas and mulched grass and plastering mud on my hair was a new process for me.  I'm a little worried about rinse out because I worry how difficult it's going to be to get this out, and, I'm mainly worried about the color result.  This morning it did look like some of the previously reddish brunette was a bit more reddish on the strand I had done 2 days ago.  I did wet my hair just to tame it, but did not wash it...I just wet my hands yesterday and ran them through my hair so I could pull my hair up.  Will water alone make the indigo not stick?  I know you are not supposed to shampoo for 2 days after but I didn't think water would harm it?

Also, what do I use to help get rid of this smell from my hair?  I read something about rinsing the hair with apple cider vinegar and it will remove the smell?  

I noticed this morning in the shower that my hair when wet, the little strand I had done 2 days ago, smelled quite bad.  Please help :)

hennaheadnewbie
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Re: Henna/Indigo 4 hours grays still look orange

 Okay, all rinsed out and done and WOW!  It's really pretty dark.  I'm kind of in shock...I don't dislike it, but what a change from my grays!  My gray is pretty much completely covered and some coppery red in the crown area where there was a lot of gray and white.  My husband immediately commented on how the condition of my hair has improved!  A couple of questions:

*How do I reduce or eliminate the indigo/henna smell from my hair?  An apple cider vinegar rinse?

*I need to wait 48 hours to shampoo, correct?

*Will my color lighten and mellow at all?  My ends are pretty dark.  My hair is actually dark brunette with the ends bordering on black...and I bought the medium brunette for gray hair kit and added 25 grams amla.  I wasn't even expecting complete gray coverage the first time out much less this dark a color lol

ACWN
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Re: Henna/Indigo 4 hours grays still look orange

I dont know if an ACV rinse would do it, and I would caution against it with the fresh indigo, just cause it can be so picky. You can put a couple drops of an essential oil into your hair and comb that through, or put a few drops into your conditioner and do it that way. You could also mix a little pumpkin pie spice mix into some water and pour that over your hair, then rinse it out.

 

At least 48 hours, yeah.

 

Possibly? I would not count on it, I would actually bank on it going slightly darker as it oxidizes. Wash JUST the places that are too dark with shampoo and see how much that pulls out, if its not enough after a couple washes then add baking soda to your shampoo... if not that, then dish soap and baking soda. But since you just did it, shampoo should pull some out.

hennaheadnewbie
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Re: Henna/Indigo 4 hours grays still look orange

 Thank you for the suggestions on making my hair smell better.

I'm not sure why my hair turned out SO dark.  I am naturally a medium/dark brunette.  This past year, I went 30-50% gray throughout my hair, 50-70% gray on top and the ends of my hair still had some brunette in them, most likely from past color and some of my natural color.  I bought the Medium Brunette for gray hair, so 50/50 Henna/indigo which is supposed to be medium brown. (I actually secretely feared it may turn out too light, more like a caramel brown) and I added in 25 grams of amla to the henna before mixing as suggested in troubleshooting gray and left on my head for 6 hours as suggested for maximum gray coverage.  I wonder if the 6 hours was too long.  The positive is it covered my gray completely (outside of one strand in back that I must not have covered completely and just a small area by my face on one side that I know the plastic wrap slid off of, probably causing it not to work as effectively.

On the shampoo, should I wait a day or two to see what happens before trying the shampoo or baking soda?  I'm afraid as I don't want the gray to come back.  

The bottom 2/3rds of my hair are dark brown bordering on black!  I'm not sure how I could get black without doing a 2 step.  I thought you always had to do a 2 step in order to get black?

I should mention also that my strand tests came out much lighter.  The longest I left one on was 4 hours.  It didn't completely cover the gray on top, so I was told to leave it on 6 hours or longer.

On the few stray grays I mentioned above, I'm thinking I could probably buy some samples and mix since it's such small areas and just touch those up?

kat
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Re: Henna/Indigo 4 hours grays still look orange

 Just wanted to add my two cents here, since I just recently did (and re-did) a hennigo for the first time.  I also thought that my hair was kind of shockingly dark at first, but in my case (and several others I've read about recently), that darkness actually faded too much the first time, leaving some layers too light and too red/orange.  And, it took a few weeks to get to that point.

ACWN makes some good points about trying to experiment with removing some of the indigo on the "too dark" places, and I know from reading this thread that you are willing and able to experiment with just a hank or two on your head (me, I'm too impatient;-), so might be worth it to try.

On the other hand, within a day or two of my first hennigo I went from "ack - toooo dark!" to "this color looks great on me!", so you might want to let your eyes get used to it a bit first.  Unless of course you know you don't like it;-).

Good luck!

hennaheadnewbie
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Re: Henna/Indigo 4 hours grays still look orange

 Thank you Kat.  I may do that.  This was quite a process and I'm a first-timer, so I don't want to risk removing too much indigo and having to start over again.  I may wait a couple of days.  If the indigo fades too much and you get too red, what do you do then?  An indigo gloss?  Hendigo gloss?

Carrie
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Re: Henna/Indigo 4 hours grays still look orange

 Agree that you should NOT shampoo your whole head until 48 hours post application, but DO shampoo the "too-dark" ends to lift some of the indigo, and do it NOW, don't wait 48 hours to do it. It won't work as well after the first 24 hours.

If the indigo fades too much you can do either an indigo gloss (very brief, like 10-15 minutes) on the red parts (again, watch for too-dark ends and don't put more indigo on an area that you don't want any darker!)  or a hendigo gloss. The hendigo gloss will be less likely to go black with a little longer application, but it still could. Hair that has been previously bleached or dyed chemically tends to "grab" indigo very strongly so be cautious and use less indigo application time than you think you need. 

hennaheadnewbie
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Re: Henna/Indigo 4 hours grays still look orange

 Thank you Carrie.  The ends of my hair were the only thing left that still probably had some chemical color on it (it's been over a year since I've colored.  So that could be why the indigo really grabbed there.  I'm also wondering if the amla caused it to go this dark?

Thinking now that in the past, my hair has always grabbed both color and curl very quickly.  I used to get perms (years ago) and I always had to remind the stylist to use the largest rollers because a regular body wave roller would give me kinky curls.  Same with color..most times I went lighter than usual because my hair grabbed it, but it usually lightens up.  Not sure if that will happen with the plant dyes?  I had forgotten about all of this since it's been over a year since I have done anything to my hair outside of trimming it.

I am going to post some photos to show you.

I'm also wondering if part of this could be the more greenish/ashy cast that some people speak of in regards to the indigo that goes away after shampooing?

hennaheadnewbie
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Re: Henna/Indigo 4 hours grays still look orange

 Okay, I'm going to post some photos now to help bring some visual clarity to what I'm referring to:

This photo is an original of my gray roots...you can see that I had a LOT of gray:

http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j284/DKunesh/Hair-1.jpg

My crown after the henndigo:

http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j284/DKunesh/2012November27-173940375.jpg

An idea of what my hair and ends were like before henndigo depending upon light:

http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j284/DKunesh/Debbiemineralmakeup2012.jpg

The photo below is my hair about a week ago.  You can clearly see the gray and the multiple tones and frizzy hair:

http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j284/DKunesh/FamilyportraitmycloseupNo...

My hair with more of the gray showing in the light, so I guess I got used to seeing a lighter hair around my face, which is maybe why the dark is a little shocking?

http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j284/DKunesh/Profilefocus2.jpg

This is my hair after the henndigo.  It's pretty in some light, and looks a bit dark in others.

http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j284/DKunesh/2012November28-081858828.jpg

http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j284/DKunesh/2012November28-081739796.jpg

You can see here that the ends of the hair are a little darker, but pretty much, my whole hair is dark outside of the crown area:

http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j284/DKunesh/2012November28-074327437.jpg

http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j284/DKunesh/2012November27-173929531.jpg

 

kat
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Re: Henna/Indigo 4 hours grays still look orange

 Personally, I think it looks great;-)!  The picture quality is a bit fuzzy, but I can see what looks like the (former) greys on the top of your head are now a bit redder than the length.  SInce that color was so different to start with, I'm not surprised it has a slightly different tone now.  

I had the same thing going on with my formerly bleached-out highlights, but apparently that hair was so "tired" and worn-out from the bleaching damage, that the idigo didn't take well there, the first time.  It did take a couple of weeks to really see that fading and orangness, however.  And, my greys covered just fine.  

Right now I am going on week two since my second (identical) hennigo, and so far, knock on wood, the color seems to be holding better this time - my hair did get a bit darker, but I've found I like it a lot;-).  And, the second time around my hair really does have better condition, that part of repeated hennas is so true!

Carrie's suggestion about a gloss seems a very sensible idea, if needed - I went straight for another hennigo because the whole thing seemed to have lightened up, so for me, more a personal (new) preference for a darker look.  

 

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