Gloss vs. Cassia/Henna mix?

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thomppl
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Gloss vs. Cassia/Henna mix?

I just did some more samples.  I like both the gloss and the Cassia/Henna mixes.  Which would cover grays better?

Also, I used apple juice this time instead of lemon juice.  Hair seems much less dry but I was wondering if I choose to use tea instead when I do my entire head would the only change be the dye release time?  Dye uptake into the hair should be the same...yes?  Just thinking that maybe tea would make the hair even a little less dry feeling.  I have fairly crispy hair to begin with :)

If I use tea...will the cassia and henna release dye at the same time?  I found that today with my apple juice that I had dye release with the henna 1 hour into it.  I waited for another hour and decided it was a strong enough dye release in the henna so I did my samples.  I'm assuming it will be even faster if I use tea but will it be the same for the cassia?  I know it's fairly impossible to test for dye release with cassia so I just hoped that it was ready when the henna was.

Thanks again.  Hopefully this will be my last set of samples and I can get going :)

ACWN
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Re: Gloss vs. Cassia/Henna mix?

The only thing that changes would be dye release time, yes. Though lemon juice is suppose to gradually darken over time and less acidic liquids dont.

 

I always just guess my cassia is ready when the henna is. And you got dye release in an hour with apple juice?? Wow, how hot is it where you are?? How warm were you keeping it??

Carrie
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Re: Gloss vs. Cassia/Henna mix?

Some people on the LHC forum report better gray coverage when using something acidic for their henna dye release, like water with a splash of lemon juice or some amla or a little citric acid. I'm not sure how tea would compare but my guess is it's a little less acidic than apple juice. I think apple juice would be acidic enough.

I haven't noticed a difference in gray coverage using henna gloss vs cassia/henna mix, but my gray isn't particularly dye resistant so far.

thomppl
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Re: Gloss vs. Cassia/Henna mix?

I must admit I turned my air conditioning up (down???) to 76 degrees F.  Also, I bought the apple juice last night and just let it sit in my house so it was room temp when I mixed this morning...but, yeah, the stain on my palm after an hour isn't as bright as the one I did an hour later but I can still see it.

I was sifting through the old forum reading up on glosses and I saw something about cholesterol.  I can just buy this at Sally's?

thomppl
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Re: Gloss vs. Cassia/Henna mix?

I'm thinking I like the feel of the hair sample from the gloss so I'm going to do that.  I have a question regarding amount of henna.  When I see people saying they used 2-3 tsp is that of the powder (then making it into a paste) or is that 2-3 tsp of a paste (already made up)?  And, I'm thinking I should use tablespoons instead of teaspoons as I have super thick hair.

ACWN
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Re: Gloss vs. Cassia/Henna mix?

Its actually supposed to be 1 - 3 tablespoons of ready to go henna to a cup of conditioner. 1 being a weak gloss, 3 being a very strong gloss.

himawari
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Re: Gloss vs. Cassia/Henna mix?

I'm new here.  What does "ready to go henna" mean?  Does that mean powder or paste?  Do you add 1 to 3 T of paste or 1 to 3 T of powder to the conditioner?

Plus what is the difference in outcome between using a henna gloss or a cassia/henna mix?  Is one shinier, does one last longer, is the color different-- what can I expect?  Thanks.  I've never used any of these things but want to start.  My hair is mousy brown.

Carrie
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Re: Gloss vs. Cassia/Henna mix?

"ready to go" henna would mean dye-released henna paste.

A cassia/henna mix will give similar color as a henna gloss ... unless your cassia/henna mix is nearly all cassia, in which case you may see more golden tones from the cassia. If there is a significant amount of henna in the mix though, it's going to look just like an equivalent amount of henna in a henna gloss. That's because henna is SOOO much stronger than cassia. Cassia's color can't compete unless there is LOTS more of it than there is henna.

If you use a cassia/henna mix, however, you will also get the textural changes/benefits of cassia which include added volume/thickness and shine. A henna gloss will not give the volume that a cassia mix will. Henna gives crazy shine but if you are only using a very small amount of henna you'll only get a similar amount of shine. Cassia can make up the difference, shine-wise. But those effects of cassia's wear off in about 4 weeks. You can continue to use cassia every month or so to refresh those effects if you wish.

ACWN
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Re: Gloss vs. Cassia/Henna mix?

thomppl - cholesterol glosses dont work so well, I've done them. It doesnt take as well on virgin hair.

 

himawari - In my experience, a gloss lasts longer. Cassia tends to fade at around 3 weeks and it caused a very odd color result on my hair when I did a 50/50 mix when the cassia faded. I dunno, that might have just been me, but I'm not fond of it.

himawari
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Re: Gloss vs. Cassia/Henna mix?

Thank you.  I think I may well skip using a lot of cassia after all and just do a henna gloss.  I'm interested in maybe using a little cassia because it changes the color of the henna a bit.  I like this person's mix

http://www.hennaforhair.com/mixes/Kris/

She used 1t cassia and 1t henna in her yogurt gloss and said the color of the dye was "marigold."  Maybe I can use a little cassia just for the sake of changing the color.  I'll do tests with her mix and with a straight henna gloss and see what happens.

Carrie
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Re: Gloss vs. Cassia/Henna mix?

One tsp of cassia did not do anything for her color. It added a little conditioning. Cassia is quite weak dye even if you use it full strength. One tsp of henna is responsible for the color in her gloss. A tiny amount of henna uptake adds yellow-gold, a little more deepens to orange, more deepens the color to red/auburn.

Have you ever used yellow food coloring? Full strength, it's red like blood. Diluted it's yellow. That's what henna does too.

himawari
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Re: Gloss vs. Cassia/Henna mix?

Thank you, Carrie!  I am interested to hear that henna can give more yellowish effects if it is diluted.  I'm going to try a gloss!

tabertooths
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Re: Gloss vs. Cassia/Henna mix?

Just wanted to get this thread started again.  While I hear that Cassia adds "golden" tones on light hair, ultimately it appears as if Cassia's main "job" is dilution of the Henna mix, and does much the same thing that a conditioner does in the gloss, since a diluted Henna is "golden" anyways.

If this is the case (and please correct me here)  would the only benefit of mixing Cassia  with Henna be a longer-lasting dye?

 

Jen
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Re: Gloss vs. Cassia/Henna mix?

 I hope Carrie offers an opinion too. She uses a lot more cassia than I, but in my opinion I wouldn't expect using henna with cassia to make the cassia last longer. 

Carrie
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Re: Gloss vs. Cassia/Henna mix?

A cassia henna mix gives similar color to a henna gloss of the same strength. The advantage of cassia/henna over conditioner/henna is that cassia adds more fullness and shine to hair than conditioner does. Cassia will not make henna's color last longer - henna is more permanent than cassia is and doesn't need help in that regard :)

thomppl
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Re: Gloss vs. Cassia/Henna mix?

 Question...yep, me again and I have yet to do henna as no one liked the colors of my samples on my bleached hair and thus scared me off.  I have since gone completely natural in my haircare regeme.  I have ordered cassia to tint my greys golden but am still playing around with the possibility of henna...if I do a henna cassia mix heavy on cassia I understand that as the cassia fades the color may change but if I do straight cassia after that would it "fix" that problem?  I am not even sure I have explained this properly...I think I remember ACWN (is that her username) saying that the color of the hair dyed with a henna cassia mix changes as the cassia fades.  Could this be taken care of by monthly full head cassia coverage and only henna cassia mix the roots?  Thanks.

Carrie
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Re: Gloss vs. Cassia/Henna mix?

Hoping ACWN will answer you because I used to do cassia mixes all the time and didn't notice anything the cassia fading or the color changing. The teaspoon of henna in the mix was stronger than the 100 mg of cassia so I didn't notice when/if cassia faded!

thomppl
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Re: Gloss vs. Cassia/Henna mix?

 Thanks Carrie.  Approximately how much would amla tone down the orange in a 4:1 cassia henna mix?  Also, if I choose to do a gloss do I have to use conditioner or can I use pectin?  I use morrocco method shampoo which is all natural and no conditioner so I would prefer not to put conditioner in my hair, but would prefer the more subtle color of the conditioner gloss.  Thanks!

Carrie
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Re: Gloss vs. Cassia/Henna mix?

I use about 1/5 to 1/4 as much amla as henna;  don't know if amla will be able to make this sort of mix less orangey, though.

You can use pectin gel, xanthan gum gel, or flaxseed gel. They all work as a base for henna glosses. The xanthan gum and flaxseeds you would find at a healthfood grocery like Whole Foods I think.

 

thomppl
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Re: Gloss vs. Cassia/Henna mix?

 Carrie, is there a recipe for the flaxseed gel?  I have a bag full of flaxseed.  Do I just grind them up and add distilled water?

Carrie
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Re: Gloss vs. Cassia/Henna mix?

I don't remember, I've never done it but you can google flaxseed hair gel and I'm sure you'll find loads of ideas.

 

thomppl
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Re: Gloss vs. Cassia/Henna mix?

 Hopefully last question.  I am thinking I like the look of the "butterscotch", ie your 100g cassia with 1 tsp. each henna and buxus.  If both cassia and buxus fade how do you keep your ends matched with your roots?  Do you mix all three together once the cassia and henna have released their dye?  I could use this in a gloss form, right?  Thanks again :)

Carrie
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Re: Gloss vs. Cassia/Henna mix?

There isn't any buxus available right now, so consider using cassia/henna/indigo instead.

The color is so light in my mix, there wasn't any issue with ends not matching roots even when the tiny amount of buxus faded.

I let henna and cassia release dye separately, and when they had, then I mixed the buxus, stirred all 3 together, and applied immediately.  Actually the henna was almost always frozen leftover paste from before, already dye-released.

HIGHLANDERGIRL61
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Re: Gloss vs. Cassia/Henna mix?

 When will the Buxus be available? Do you have anymore Yemen light, Looks like you are running out of supplies, I use Yemen Light, and Buxus, is your Cassia supply down? What can I use in place of this.

Carrie
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Re: Gloss vs. Cassia/Henna mix?

My guess would be imports from Yemen will return when the political situation there stabilizes. Punjabi Prime would be a good substitute for Yemen Light, with roughly equivalent dye content and a wonderful sift. 

Cassia supplies are fine as far as I know; it's available in the store.

In place of buxus, I would suggest using indigo. Just reduce the amount a little bit because it's stronger than buxus, and be aware that it will probably fade less than buxus does.

thomppl
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Re: Gloss vs. Cassia/Henna mix?

 I think I am going to go with a henna gloss using yogurt and punjabi prime or the jasmine for delicate hair! Can't decide which I want lol.  Two questions...1) approximately how many grams of henna for a henna gloss?  2). I just ordered oodles of cassia last week because i just thought I was going to color my greys yellow.  Would it be okay to do monthly cassia treatments over the henna if I let the cassia dye release to tint the grey roots?  I wouldn't just do roots with it though, I would do the whole head.

Thanks!

Carrie
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Re: Gloss vs. Cassia/Henna mix?

The amount of henna in your gloss depends on how much color you want from it. If you want to add bright coppery carrot-top orange to your existing color (keeping in mind it can't lighten your hair, only add more color), use 50% prepared henna paste, 50% base (conditioner, yogurt or whatever). So, for example, a half cup each of henna paste and conditioner. If you want light strawberry blonde, you can use as little as 1 to 2 tsp henna paste per cup of conditioner. Apply for about 2 hours.

It's fine to use cassia over your hennaed hair. Cassia's color on white hair is very light yellow blonde.

Some people's hair doesn't respond well to cassia, becoming dry and strawlike. For most of us, though, it makes hair thick, full, soft and shiny. Suggest doing a strand test. I found I got more shine and softness if I let the cassia release dye, compared to mixing and applying right away.

Cassia's conditioning effects last about 3 weeks. The color fades a little, not completely, in that amount of time.

thomppl
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Re: Gloss vs. Cassia/Henna mix?

 Oh, I have super thick jaw length hair...to help answer the how many grams for a gloss question :)

thomppl
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Re: Gloss vs. Cassia/Henna mix?

 I actually used cassia on my hair about 2 weeks ago and loved the effect on my greys...that is why i ordered oodles of it.  But then I started thinking about henna again, but since i own so much cassia I wanted to be able to use it lol.  Thanks bunches.  Think I am ordering 100 g packs of both punjabi prime and the jasmine for delicate hair and will make up my mind when they get here.  Gonna have to go without a strand test.  Going all natural has made my hair stop coming out in my brushes...good in the long run but now no hairballs for samples.  Oh well, sometimes living on the edge is fun :)

thomppl
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Re: Gloss vs. Cassia/Henna mix?

 Ok, I have come to the conclusion that a gloss will not give me the color saturation I am looking for.  So I am back on the cassia henna mix.  I figure if I do cassia monthly it will stop the strange color thing ACWN was talking about...maybe, yeah?  Anyway, I was planning on doing it on towel dried hair.  I know henna can be put on towel dried hair and I just want to make sure cassia can too.  Thanks!

Carrie
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Re: Gloss vs. Cassia/Henna mix?

yes it can. I never got the strange color ACWN talked about.

thomppl
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Re: Gloss vs. Cassia/Henna mix?

 Thanks for all your help.  Should get my order early next week.  Will post before and after pics on the flickr page.  Can't wait!

moop (not verified)
Re: Gloss vs. Cassia/Henna mix?

Hi everyone,

I am about to order henna and cassia for my first coloring and want to thank you all for the information this thread has provided.

thomppl, I'm curious about what you used and how it worked out for you.  Have you before and after photos?  If so, I'd love to see them.

Thanks all.

Mary C.  (moop) 

 

Mayflowers
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Re: Gloss vs. Cassia/Henna mix?

 I tried a 1/4 tsp in a 1/4 cup of conditioner. .let it sit 30 mins and then applied just to my temple area which is some kind of super human resistant gray there and left it on for 30 mins.. Not much happened. Still looks the same. Any tips members?  Try a whole tsp in a 1/4 cup of conditioner? Let the conditioner develop longer?

I used the Rajasthani Monsoon henna btw.

Carrie
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Re: Gloss vs. Cassia/Henna mix?

 Mayflowers, are you talking about using just henna, no indigo?  what is your color goal and starting color? what else have you tried to rough up the hair shaft on your temple hair? Generally if you have dye resistant hair you wouldn't use a gloss, but a full strength paste. 30 minutes is a very short time to use a henna gloss, and would only be expected to produce a blondish, possibly slightly strawberry blonde/golden/orangey color but on dye resistant hair you probably need a stronger gloss or full strength paste.

I know what you mean about hair on the temples - mine would stay bright orange even when the rest of my hair, including the gray, was deep auburn! 

Mayflowers
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Re: Gloss vs. Cassia/Henna mix?

Hi Carrie,

I have light brown hair and gray temples and through the bangs with some gray starting througout my head. I was attempting to do the gray so it would look light blonde highlights. I'm not trying to go red. I used cassia and lemon juice. It worked on some of it.. very light. I wanted a deeper golden on the gray so now I tried a gloss using Rajasthani Monsoon and conditioner ( Suave professionals Almond and Shea butter and that was the only cheap one I could find.at $1.87) ..I mixed 1/4 tsp in 1/4 cup and let it sit for 30 mins. Applied it, waited 30 mins. rinsed and nothing. Barely any color result. So I had some RM mixed with lemon juice from yesterday for my nails, and I decided to try a tsp of the mix with 2 T of plain yourt. I think the conidtioner blocked the absorption, and I applied it and left it on for 30 mins again. Improved results but some spots did not absorb. I'm thinking of leaving it on for an hour next time. I think If I keep applying it every week it will start to take. Man I can't believe how resistant my temple gray is...!! What do you think?

Carrie
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Re: Gloss vs. Cassia/Henna mix?

 I agree with a longer application of gloss if it's still being resistant. But I'd also suggest you use paste full strength (for a shorter time than with a gloss, obviously) instead of a gloss for best penetration. 20-30 minutes with paste should give you a yellow (to possibly light orange) color. 

Be sure you prepare the hair first with the strongest possible shampoo you can get your hands on. Do it right before you apply the dye. Actually dishwashing liquid would be even better, just on those stubborn areas, to really strip them of oil and help them take up the dye better. 

Mayflowers
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Re: Gloss vs. Cassia/Henna mix?

Ok thanks. I tried the paste because I had it already prepared. Full strength henna powder in conditioner did not do anything. Unless it was the conditioner.  What if next time I mix the henna powder 1 tsp with 2 T plain yogurt and let it develop longer than 30 mins..more like an hour? I think I'll try that and then leave it on for 30 mins to an hour. I'll just have to experiment until I get the color I like. Using the paste gave me the most golden color so far. The paste might have worked better because I had made it with full strength lemon juice. That's a possible reason.

Carrie
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Re: Gloss vs. Cassia/Henna mix?

 It's possible the conditioner or the yogurt are part of the reason you're not getting the results you want. I'm suggesting you use just your regular liquid (whatever that is, tea, apple juice, lemon juice etc) and NOT use anything like conditioner or yogurt in the mix, and see if you get better results. 

Mayflowers
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Re: Gloss vs. Cassia/Henna mix?

Oh! So, then I'd just mix the henna powder in straight lemon juice..wait 30 mins and then apply and leave it on 30 mins..or longer if necessary?  I think I gottcha now. :)

ACWN
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Re: Gloss vs. Cassia/Henna mix?

Henna mixed with lemon juice will NOT be ready in 30 minutes. It takes 8 - 12 hours, sometimes upwards of 24 for a lemon juice mix to dye release.

Mayflowers
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Re: Gloss vs. Cassia/Henna mix?

Ok...confused. How can henna powder mixed in conditioner and let stand 30 mins work then? 

I got pretty good coverage with the henna mixed with lemon juice, left for way over 12 hours and mixed with yogurt and left on for 30 mins. Just a few spots didn't take. Got a pretty good golden color.

ACWN
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Re: Gloss vs. Cassia/Henna mix?

Because conditioner isnt very acidic, its pH is nearly neutral (I would guess) so it will cause dye release to happen very quickly. Which is why you can mix henna powder into it, let it sit for 30 minutes to dye release and it will work.

The more acidic a liquid is, the longer it takes to dye release and the longer the dye will remain active and usable. A less acidic mix will be ready sooner, but will not be active as long.

Mayflowers
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Re: Gloss vs. Cassia/Henna mix?

Thanks. I'll try the gloss again both ways and see which way works best for me.

thomppl
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Re: Gloss vs. Cassia/Henna mix?
Ended up doing 1/3 henna 2/3 cassia for a few months but the bright white gray roots were just hideous as they grew in against the fairly bright red hair. For the past 6 months I have done 1-2 Tablespoons of prepared henna paste in 1-2 cups of Greek yogurt (all depending on the length of the roots) and then adding powdered instant vanilla pudding to thicken it. I leave it on until it starts to drip (about 1 hour) and my dirty blonde/mouse brown hair warms up to a very very pale auburn and the grays turn a warm golden color so they look like natural highlights. Definitely like the gloss better than henna/cassia mix. Plus it rinses out so easily.
Mayflowers
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Re: Gloss vs. Cassia/Henna mix?

For the last year or so, I've been my natural brown color. I stopped using hair color and I'm gray all around my temples with some salt and pepper but not too noticeable.

I use a henna wash. I used the highest grade Rajasthani henna, mixed with lemon juice. Very simple. The lemon juice is acidic and it helps the henna stick to the gray better.  I let the henna develop for 2 or more hours.  I apply it and leave it on for 30-40 mins usually with my head wrapped up in saran wrap if I do my whole head.  I was doing a wash for golden highlights, then I accidently left it on too long one time and it came out the usual orange-red color. I ended up liking that color better because it blended well with my brown hair.  I just use henna and lemon juice. It lasts for about 2 months..until the roots come in.. sometimes I have to go over the roots one week and then again the next weekend for full coverage. NOTHING has ever covered my gray completely...except henna.  I'm so glad I found this website. I learned how to use the henna wash from here. Thanks to the Admin!

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