NEED ADVICE FAST !!! Henna roots vs. Henna on the bottom What to do ?

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worldtraveler
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NEED ADVICE FAST !!! Henna roots vs. Henna on the bottom What to do ?

 Hi,

I hope anyone with knowledge about this can help.  I have been doing henna glosses now since March or April 2012, every 3-4 weeks what I did was:

I took 2 T. of prepared henna (paste that I made with the lemon zinger tea which I divided into 2T. amounts in baggies and froze them until ready to use and thaw). I would mix that paste with 1 c. greek yogurt, put on hair, plastic wrap 2 hours, etc.  This is what I had been doing since that time, when I did this, I never saw much of a change to be quite honest, and definitely never would cover the few grays I had at the time.  

Now  I have a lot more gray hairs popping out, especially around hairline in front --I do not want gray.  Also I have quite a few shades going on in my hair currently - I don't mind this as I kind of like the ends going lighter towards the bottom, gives it more of a natural ombre look, with darker at the top, but not mandatory to keep it this way.  The problem is I do not like this dark mousy brown blah that is coming in at the top/roots along with the gray and would prefer more of a warm orangey red chesnut color (but the mid line and bottom I kind of like the way it is).  Now I have never done Pure Henna (without the yogurt as a gloss).  Long ago I did hair samples and did not like the end result, therefore never did it - as it looked like brown rust on the samples.  


So now I don't know what to do to fix the gray/roots yet maintain for the most part (without making the middle/ends darker, I prefer it to go gradually lighter) I have some photos of what my end goal I like would be....So any suggestions ?  

Can one just do pure henna on top of their hair, and then make a gloss and spread that on the middle and bottom, or would there be a line of demarcation where those meet ?  I don't know...Or should I mix with the henna for the top a tiny bit of yogurt to not make it as strong for the top ?  I just don't know what to do, as I don't like this ugly brown and gray coming in, and need some advice fast !!!  

As I am NO expert, so if you could when you give your advice, could you please give me quantities - like mix 1 c. of this with 2 T. of that etc. so I know what to do to fix this mess....


Thank you SOOOOO much for helping me with this.  I am posting photos with this so you can see my issue.  Thank you again for your detailed advice.

MY END GOAL IS FOR MY HAIR TO LOOK LIKE THIS COLOR - two photos :
The Top 10 Redheads in Hollywood

www.instyle.com/instyle/package/general/photos/0,,20051412_20297949_20910964,00.html

and

www.instyle.com/instyle/package/general/photos/0,,20475181_20475183_20930212,00.html

MY HAIR NOW:

picasaweb.google.com/108515217549726534359/January82013GROWNOUT

 

 

 

 

 

Carrie
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Re: NEED ADVICE FAST !!! Henna roots vs. Henna on the ...

 For your desired color, I'd use a 50/50 mix of cassia and henna on the top part of the hair and leave it on for 3 hours, and if you want it to be gradually lighter toward the bottom, you could put dilute that mixture with half conditioner or yogurt for the ends. 

I think your glosses have been too dilute to give you good color on gray. You'll need to get them exposed to more dye than you've been doing. 

If you got brownish color from past strand testing, I'd suggest you get some Rainwash from Mehandi, or Ion Crystal Clarifying treatment from Sally Beauty supply, and get any mineral buildup out of your hair before you henna again. 

worldtraveler
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Re: NEED ADVICE FAST !!! Henna roots vs. Henna on the ...

 Hi Carrie, thank you so much for your advice....I was wondering, so just want to confirm....as on the actual shop part of the website, it said something slightly different:

Here's how to dye your blond or gray hair strawberry blonde with cassia obovata and henna:

  • Mix 80% cassia and 20% henna with enough dilute lemon juice or orange juice to make a paste as thick as yogurt.  Let the paste sit about 12 hours.  Section your hair and apply the cassia thick, as you would cake frosting into all the sections and down to the scalp. Wrap your hair in plastic wrap to contain the slop.   Leave the paste in three hours.   Rinse out and shampoo.  Your gray or faded blond hair should feel heavy, thick and silky, and have a lovely  strawberry blond color.

But I know you mentioned to use a 50/50 mix....what would be better ?  The 50/50 or the 80/20 ?  I am not clear to be honest what the 'end result' would be with either the 50/50 or 80/20 ??  
Also when you say 50/50 are you saying to mix up 100 gr. of each (so it would total 200 g.) ?  That would be more than enough right ?  Probably too much ?  

When you mix cassia and henna, would you do it with tea, oj, lemon or anything in particular, or doesn't matter ?

Also would you do the top part separately (for the 3 hours), and then do the middle/bottom after (or all at the same time)?   You don't think there will be 'a line' where one begins and ends ?

Now -- If I just use that cassia/henna mixture with NO change for middle/ends, and just use it on my whole head, what would the result be ?  Would it basically be monotone throughout, or does it still show some of the highlights through it ?

I will try that Rainwash or Ion Crystal Clarifying treatment first as well - not sure if I have mineral in my hair, but if you say that would be a good idea, I will do it...don't want my hair to be brown, but that strawberrry blonde/orangey red...

 

Thank you again for all your help, I greatly appreciate it !!!!

Carrie
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Re: NEED ADVICE FAST !!! Henna roots vs. Henna on the ...

 The end result of an 80/20 mix would be lighter strawberry blonde than a 50/50 mix. I suggested 50/50 because I thought your desired color was darker than that, but do some hairball tests to find out for sure. Let the hairball tests oxidize for a week before deciding for sure. Or, simply use the 80/20 mix to start with, and if it's not dark enough then re-henna. 

You don't have to use 200 gm. Use as much as you need for your hair. If it's a 50/50 mix, simply use equal amounts of each dye. 

I'd use chamomile tea for the liquid, but it's a matter of personal preference. If you want brownish/rusty tones use all lemon juice. 

I'd do top and length all at once, but use the more dilute mix on the length. If you are afraid of a line, then do a more gradual shift from the stronger mix and the weaker mix - perhaps drag some of the stronger mix down onto the length and smoosh it around. But I don't think you'll see a distinct line anyway.
 

Your existing highlights will still show through, to some degree, no matter what mix you use. The more you henna, the more you'll blend those highlights out. Henna doesn't do monotone the way chemical dye does. It allows the existing color variations to show through. 

 

worldtraveler
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Re: NEED ADVICE FAST !!! Henna roots vs. Henna on the ...

 Hi Carrie,

Few questions...

I ordered the Cassia and Rainwash.

Regarding the Rainwash, not sure how to use it - but do you wash your hair with that, and then immediately do the henna treatment ?  Do you wait for your hair to dry first ?

Now regarding the Cassia/Henna..

I am thinking to do my whole head the same (because my guess is that the lighter ends will not get as dark as the top anyways), when I have done the gloss with yogurt I have not seen hardly any change at all, so want to do something more obvious, more strawberry blonde looking (like links from my first message).  

So regarding the ratio of 50/50 vs. 80/20 mix, as I want to be more clear on the end result with either...

You said the 80/20 will give more of a lighter strawberry blonde -- will that be for my entire head ?

Never mentioned - is the henna supposed to be the 80 or the 20 % ?? Not sure which the Cassia % was (80 or 20) ?

Will that mix (80/20) actually make my roots (the dark brown) go lighter ?  Also, will this give full gray coverage ?

If I do the 50/50 mix what shade would that be  called ?  Would doing this give better gray coverage ?

Do you also know what quantiy to use roughly for the measurement for one application.  Like 1/2 cup of this and 1/2 cup of that or what ?

I am a bit confused on how to figure out the 80/20 split -- if you have any measurements on this to make it easier that would be great.  (As per my photos I have long hair, mid back length).

So to recap: I measure the cassia and henna in those proportions (whatever they are) and have the chamomile tea that I made the night before to get it strong, mix it in the powder to make a thick paste, then let it sit for about 12 hours or until the dye changes color...correct ?  Then apply to whole head, would you suggest 3 hours for whole head then ?

Thank you so much for your help!

Carrie
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Re: NEED ADVICE FAST !!! Henna roots vs. Henna on the ...

 Here are the instructions for Rainwash, from the website. 

Instructions for Ancient Sunrise ® Rainwash Mineral Treatment: 

 

  • Add one 5g packet (one teaspoonful) to 2 ounces of distilled (mineral free) water. 
  • Shake or stir vigorously. 
  • Allow to stand several minutes to thicken. 
  • Apply evenly to hair. 
  • Cover hair with plastic wrap or shower cap. 
  • Leave in for about 40 minutes for an initial treatment to remove heavy build up. Leave in 15 minutes weekly to keep hair free of mineral build up. 
  •  Rinse thoroughly, then shampoo and/or condition as usual. 
  • 5g or 1 teaspoon in 2 oz water is enough for shoulder length hair. Each 4 or 5 inches of length after will need an additional 1 teaspoon of product and 2 oz water. 
  • Ancient Sunrise ® RainWash smells "weird" or "sulphur-y" while it's breaking up the mineral deposits in your hair.  That's normal, and means it's doing a good job! 
  • Ancient Sunrise ® RainWash should not be used on or near broken skin, because its acidic and will sting.

 

 

Carrie
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Re: NEED ADVICE FAST !!! Henna roots vs. Henna on the ...

 Sounds to me like you can apply to dry or damp hair - if it mattered, it would say, I suppose.  Let it stay in the hair for 40 minutes then rinse and shampoo. 

Carrie
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Re: NEED ADVICE FAST !!! Henna roots vs. Henna on the ...

 80% cassia (the pale, weak yellow dye) and 20% henna. Figure out how much dye you need total. Let's say you need 300 grams total. Multiply 300 by 0.2 (that is the same as 20%) and you get 60, so you need 60 grams henna and 240 grams cassia. 

100 gm of henna is usually around 1 cup. So 1/3 cup is around 33 gm, and 2/3 cup is around 66 gm.  You could use about  2/3 cup (or a little less) of henna, and 2 and 1/3 cups of cassia. 

No plant dyes will make hair lighter. They add color, and they don't lighten the hair. Your dark brown roots are going to come out dark brown with perhaps some reddish highlights, and that reddish sparkle may only show in bright sunshine. Your color after using this mix will not be a uniform color, roots to ends, because you are not starting with a uniform color.

The color you get with an 20% henna mix is not very dark; it's usually a bright strawberry blonde (a light red haircolor, some would call it bright coppery orangey red). Your white hair will be dyed a light/bright orangey strawberry blonde. You will need to leave it on for 3 hours to get the full effect. If you leave it on a shorter time, you won't get as much uptake on any of your hair, and the white hair may only turn kind of golden blonde. It's possible, if some of your gray/white hair is dye resistant, that it will remain white still even with a 3 hour treatment. In that case you can try a strong mixture (higher percentage of henna in the mix) to get better gray coverage. 

You will get a darker shade of red - still a bright light red, though, in henna terms - with a 50/50 mix. And this too will not give a uniform color all over, because your starting color variations are going to show through, just like they have been doing with your glosses. 

Mix your henna paste separately from  your cassia paste, so you will be able to test the henna for dye release on your palm. If you mix cassia and henna together and then add liquid, your paste will not be strong enough to stain your palm well. That's why you want the henna separate until you have tested and verified dye release. You do not need to let a chamomile tea mix sit for 12 hours. That is the time you need for a m ore acidic paste made with something like all lemon juice, or using amla powder for the acid. With tea, just let it sit about 4-6 hours, then test it on your palm. The cassia will not stain your palm, but when you have dye release in the henna, the cassia will be ready also. 

worldtraveler
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Re: NEED ADVICE FAST !!! Henna roots vs. Henna on the ...

 WOW Carrie, I cannot thank you enough for this information !!  This information has been EXTREMELY helpful !!! I would give you a hug if I could !! :)  

Thank you again.... Will try Everything as you suggested.   

 

 

worldtraveler
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Re: NEED ADVICE FAST !!! Henna roots vs. Henna on the ...

Hi Carrie,

I just received the rainwash and the cassia in the mail today...

2 quick questions:

I know you said I should mix the cassia and henna separtately (due to dye release) etc.  

For the 2/3 c. henna and the 2 1/3 c. cassia - how much camomile tea would you make quantity (and how strong), does it matter ?

Also...I was thinking something, and hope I can get your reply quickly (as I want to do this henna/cassia that we discussed asap)...

As I am not too happy with the dark regrowth on the top of my head and would like to brighten it up some so more strawberry/orangy color will be up there, not just a brown blob - I was wondering if it would be ok to buy a highlighting kit and highlight my hair at home - First, then maybe a day or so later do the henna/cassia on the whole head (3 hours) ?  


I don't want my hair to turn green or something weird !! :)  Do you think it would work ?  I just am wondering if the highlights would then turn more reddish/strawberry once I put the cassia/henna on (would it deposit on the highlighted hair)?   Not sure anyone if they have had success or problems - any advice/suggestions would be greatly appreciated !

If that makes sense ?  I hope you can let me know if this will work?

Thanks so much...

 

Jen
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Re: NEED ADVICE FAST !!! Henna roots vs. Henna on the ...

 I'm not exactly sure how much tea to use. I always use straight juice and just add it by eye. When the texture is just a touch heavier than pancake batter, its had enough liquid. I'm pretty sure most people use double-strong (or even stronger) tea, but I'd wait for Carrie to weigh in on that bit. She knows a lot more about tea and cassia than I do.

As for the dark roots, yes, you can use chemical lightener, and go over it with this recipe. I'll warn you though that the upkeep is a total pain in the neck! Keep in mind that every time your roots start to grow, you'll have to lighten with a chemical product, then go back and henna/cassia over that.

Carrie
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Re: NEED ADVICE FAST !!! Henna roots vs. Henna on the ...

 I make the tea strong (2 bags per cup) and let it sit with the bags in until it's cool. I prepare about 2 cups of tea per 100 gm of powder, but I never, ever measure my liquid. I add it slowly and stir, add more and stir.  If I ever run out of my liquid I simply make up the difference with water. Just make sure it's well blended (don't worry about lumps, they will dissolve very easily after dye release) before you set it aside for dye release. 

Agree with Jen about lightening, it's fine to do but a pain in the patootie to have to keep it up. If you do streaks instead of simply bleaching all the roots, you can get away with not bleaching every single time you henna the roots because the line won't be so stark. 

Jen
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Re: NEED ADVICE FAST !!! Henna roots vs. Henna on the ...

If you do streaks instead of simply bleaching all the roots, you can get away with not bleaching every single time you henna the roots because the line won't be so stark.

That's brilliant!

 

worldtraveler
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Re: NEED ADVICE FAST !!! Henna roots vs. Henna on the ...

 Hi there, OK thank you for all these helpful suggestions/advice...

 

One last thing-- I did do the highlights today (not the entire top, just a few streaks)....

Would it be o.k. to do the Rainwash and the Cassia/Henna ALL today as well (same day as the highlights) ?  
Not sure if I have to wait in between these 3 procedures or not ?

Thank you so much

Carrie
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Re: NEED ADVICE FAST !!! Henna roots vs. Henna on the ...

 I think you can henna/cassia immediately; I've never heard otherwise. 

worldtraveler
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Re: NEED ADVICE FAST !!! Henna roots vs. Henna on the ...

 

 Hi again...

Well I did the henna/cassia mix on 1/16/13

I followed this recipe:
80% cassia (the pale, weak yellow dye) and 20% henna. Figure out how much dye you need total. Let's say you need 300 grams total. Multiply 300 by 0.2 (that is the same as 20%) and you get 60, so you need 60 grams henna and 240 grams cassia. 

At first I was like Whoa, this is so orange - but now I actually really like it a lot.  I put the mix on my entire head (as I mentioned I had done some highlights on my hair, which I am glad I did).  

My question is, when I start seeing more grays (actually some are visible now near the hairline/ear area) I want to touch up those places without altering the color I have now.  I do not know if doing the henna/cassia every 3-4 weeks will keep darkening it up ?  I do not ever want to get that mahogany purplish tinge color - I like it more strawberry blonde/coppery as it is now.  So what do you suggest? 

Also when mixing up a smaller quantity, like just for the roots - have you figured out how much of the mix to use ?  I wouldn't want to do the length (that would keep darkening it then if I did, right?)...

Also, if you did make too much of the cassia/henna can you freeze it ?  I know you can freeze henna paste, but I was not sure if you can freeze cassia paste ?  And what about henna/cassia paste that was already combined (can that be frozen as well or not)?   The best situation would be to just mix up what I would need for a one time application - so if you have any idea on that 80/20 ratio you mentioned before that would be helpful.... 

When touching up the roots, do you have any particular technique to do it thoroughly ?  

Do you keep it on the same length of time as the initial application ?  I think I left it on for 3-4 hours.

Thank you for all of your help!!!

 I will post pictures so anyone experimenting can see the before and after:

picasaweb.google.com/108515217549726534359/January82013GROWNOUT 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Jen
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Re: NEED ADVICE FAST !!! Henna roots vs. Henna on the ...

 Do roots only to avoid the length darkening. I use a pastry bag or repurposed, pointy-tipped ketchup bottle. A little overlap doesn't hurt anything though. Henn and cassia are quite forgiving that way!

You can freeze leftovers. Depending on how thick and full your hair is, it will take roughly 50-100 g of powder.

I'm glad you like your color!

Carrie
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Re: NEED ADVICE FAST !!! Henna roots vs. Henna on the ...

 Your color looks amazing! I agree, it would be great to keep this color and not go darker. An 80/20 henna/cassia mix will darken the hair if reapplied repeatedly to the same areas, but not nearly as quickly as full strength henna paste. Because it is only 20% as strong as full strength henna paste, it will darken the hair proportionately less than full strength paste. To put it another way, you could apply it 5 times before you'd get as much darkening as 1 henna application. To refresh the shine and condition on your length without darkening the color, use cassia on the length. You don't need 2 separate applications. Just apply your roots mix, then smoosh in some cassia paste on the length and let it all process together. 

To do 1/4 inch to 1/2 inch of roots, I would typically use 35-50 gm of powder.  In terms of volume of paste, 50 gm of powder is roughly equal to 1 cup of paste.  If you have frozen leftovers, it is very simple to just thaw out about that much (just eyeball it).  

If you are mixing it fresh and you want 50 gm powder in your mix, I would use about 8 tablespoons of powder total (since there are 16 tablespoons in a cup). At an 80/20 ratio, that is roughly 6.5 tablespoons cassia, 1.5 tablespoons henna.  

worldtraveler
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Re: NEED ADVICE FAST !!! Henna roots vs. Henna on the ...

 Wow, the advice here has been amazing, and very much appreciated....

First, thank you for explaining all of this to me, I had no idea about that - that you could apply the cassia/henna mix 5 times before you'd get as much darkening as 1 henna application..that is good to know !!

OK you guys are so wise, so I wanted to clarify this - you mentioned that to do about 1/2" of roots to use 35-50 gm. of powder -- is that Total powder or you mean of henna or of cassia separately ?  Sorry my math stinks...so If I want to mix the right amount, how much cassia and henna do I use each time (for the roots)?  For an 80/20 ratio ?  Would it be:

6.5 Tablespoons cassia and 1.5 Tablespoons Henna right ?  

So that amount would be enough for root coverage.

If I had mixed up to much or had leftovers (and now the cassia and henna are both mixed together in a paste) can you freeze this ?  I know you can freeze henna paste, I wasn't sure if you could freeze cassia paste alone as well as this combination together ?  Does freezing alter the color in any way ?

You mentioned that it would take 5 applications of this 80/20 to equal one regular strength henna application... So what about when you hit that figure and from then on ? How do you maintain a certain color without making it darker each time ?  

Would it be a good idea or not -- to keep increasing the cassia ratio, while decreasing the henna each time I do this, so the roots don't start going mahogany on me ?  Yet I do want to cover those grays !!


I know you mentioned that I can just use cassia on the length (how much would you mix up just for that do you think)?    Does Cassia get darker each time you apply it ?  I don't know anything really about cassia, wonder if it would be good to do the cassia every time I do the roots, or just every so often?

OK thank you again for your help, it is appreciated very very much !!!

Jen
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Re: NEED ADVICE FAST !!! Henna roots vs. Henna on the ...

 I'm pretty sure Carrie meant 35-50 grams total product for roots. Remember she said for 1/4 to 1/2 inch of roots though! Personally, mine usually get to nearly an inch and I use more. For 50 grams you'd use 40 g cassia and 10 g henna for your mix. Your conversion to table spoons is perfect. Your math does not stink! A+

Yes, you can freeze a henna/cassia mix.

The roots are getting their first application each time. The color won't build there. What you have to worry about going dark is the length, IF you do full length treatments each time. If you just do roots it should stay even. Cassia does build, but it maxes out at blond. That's why Carrie suggested that if you're doing root only applications of your 80/20 mix, you could put cassia on the length to get some strength and conditioning on the rest -it won't deepen past the color you have.

 

 

Carrie
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Re: NEED ADVICE FAST !!! Henna roots vs. Henna on the ...

If you want to keep your color on the light side, I don't recommend you keeping using your 80/20 mix all over ... I am suggesting you should do roots-only with your 80/20 mix, and all cassia for the length. 

If you were to use the 80/20 mix all over 5 times it would end up darker than you want. Even a dilute mix will build up darker, it just does so more gradually. 

Carrie
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Re: NEED ADVICE FAST !!! Henna roots vs. Henna on the ...

 I don't know how much cassia you'll need for your length, but from the pics it looks like you'll want 200 to perhaps 300 gm, depending on how thick you like to mix it. If you mix it thin like pancake batter, then maybe just 200 gm. 

Carrie
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Re: NEED ADVICE FAST !!! Henna roots vs. Henna on the ...

 To figure out what how much henna and how much cassia, multiply 0.2 x your total number of grams. That is your henna amount. For your cassia amount, multiply 0.8 x your total number of grams. To convert grams to tablespoons of henna powder or cassia powder, use the table here:  forums.hennapage.com/node/36

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