Gray Roots Still Orange Brassy - Henna/Indigo over Chemical Dyed Hair

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sfgirl
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Gray Roots Still Orange Brassy - Henna/Indigo over Chemical Dyed Hair
I just did Henna/Indigo for the first time. I have a great deal of white (pretty solid) on the top of my head and on my temples. My hair was a medium brown chemically dyed prior to the application. I did 1/2 Henna and 1/2 Indigo, and some alma. I sat under a dryer for 2 hours, and then sat without for another 4 hours.

I did this two days ago, and the grays are still brassy/orangey and there are a few strands that didn't even take the color. Any suggestions how to fix this? How do I do roots in the future after I get what I already have corrected?

Thank you in advance.
Carrie
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Re: Gray Roots Still Orange Brassy - Henna/Indigo over ...
That is a very respectable amount of application time, so you may have dye resistant gray that will require a 2-step process. The first step would be henna for (at least) 2 hours, followed by your henna/indigo/amla mix as before, applied for 2 to 2.5 hours under a dryer or 4-6 hours not under a dryer.

I'm assuming you mixed henna with amla and room temp water, let it stand to release dye, then mixed indigo with water and salt, and added that to the henna paste, applied to freshly washed, towel dried hair? If not, try doing it that way. Using dish soap instead of shampoo helps some people get better dye uptake on dye resistant gray. Avoid using any conditioner until you rinsing out the 2nd step (no conditioner with your pre-henna shampoo)


sfgirl
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Re: Gray Roots Still Orange Brassy - Henna/Indigo over ...
Thank you for your response. so I should rinse out and shampoo the henna out and then add the indigo/Amla/henna after? Will it be necessary to do my gray roots the same way in a few weeks? Thank you
Carrie
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Re: Gray Roots Still Orange Brassy - Henna/Indigo over ...
If a 2-step process is what it takes to get good color on your grays, then yes, you'll do both steps just on the roots, whenever they need it. Don't redo the length unless you want to change its color (darken it).

You can rinse out the henna - no need to shampoo at that point (you will shampoo without conditioning before you start applying the henna) and then apply your second step. 
sfgirl
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Re: Gray Roots Still Orange Brassy - Henna/Indigo over ...
I added the alma with water (paste) to the henna after I let the Henna release with lemon juice and just before I added the indigo. When I read your post I realized I forgot salt the first time. I tried again the other day with the one step and I am still stuck with reddish roots still brassy and now where I was dark is almost black. I am extremely concerned how I am going to blend the roots with the Henna/Indigo over chemical dye portion and get the roots correct. I am still a mess. : ( So my questions are: 1. Do I mix the alma with the Henna instead of lemon juice? 2. If I do a two step process, do I a) Do Henna with alma first followed by Indigo/Salt/Henna? b) Do Henna with alma first followed by Indigo alone? c) Or either of these with Henna lemon juice followed by one of the Indigo mixes? 3. How do I lighten the parts that have gotten too dark? Highlight? Bleach? Thank you for your assistance.
Carrie
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Re: Gray Roots Still Orange Brassy - Henna/Indigo over ...
Yes, use amla as your acid. You do not need lemon in this case. Just mix henna, amla, water.  You can use amla in both steps if you like (henna/amla/water as step 1, then henna/amla/indigo/salt as step 2).

It could potentially be a problem that you added amla paste to the henna right before mixing it with the indigo. Indigo does not like acidity, and amla is acidic.  That's why we add the amla to the henna at the beginning, then let henna sit, and when the henna is releasing dye, THEN add it to the indigo paste.

To lighten the ends that have gotten too dark, you cannot bleach or highlight that hair, ever (because highlighting also includes bleach).  If you bleach indigoed hair, the bleach removes all the pigments EXCEPT the indigo, leaving you with green hair that nothing will fix.  

To lift some indigo, what you can do is shampoo it a LOT with heavy duty shampoo - actually, liquid dish soap works the best, but if you don't want to do that, then use clarifying shampoo. Wash with that and add a handful of baking soda to the shampoo, leave the suds on for up to 30 minutes if you can stand it, rinse, wash again - do this several times. It works best in the first 24 hours, but should still work to some extent later on.

Once you have the length lightened up a bit, then re-do your roots but ONLY THE ROOTS, or else you will get too dark again on the length.
sfgirl
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Re: Gray Roots Still Orange Brassy - Henna/Indigo over ...
I am going to try again today, but I just realized I think I put too much Alma in my Henna. I put 1/4 of a cup in with 100 grams of Henna. Is it still safe to do the Henna first, followed by the Henna/Indigo/Salt mixture? (and more Alma?) thank you so much....My roots are driving me nuts. : (
Carrie
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Re: Gray Roots Still Orange Brassy - Henna/Indigo over ...
That's not too much amla. 100 gm of henna is approximately 1 cup so it's just right.


sfgirl
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Re: Gray Roots Still Orange Brassy - Henna/Indigo over ...
Okay, i thought 100grams was 1 cup. Should I Add additional alma to the henna when I do the 2nd step of Henna/indigo? and just to confirm....2 hours with heat each process
Carrie
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Re: Gray Roots Still Orange Brassy - Henna/Indigo over ...
Since you're having trouble getting coverage, yes - amla again in the second step but add it to the henna before you let it sit. Don't add anything  acidic like amla at the point when you're adding the indigo.

2 hours with heat for each step should give you every chance of getting good uptake :)

Most people don't use heat  but it's great for getting more uptake in a shorter application time!
sfgirl
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Re: Gray Roots Still Orange Brassy - Henna/Indigo over ...
Hi Carrie,

I'm so sad to report it didn't work! My roots were about 7 weeks old (my hair grows very fast) and the outside of them look better, but closer to my head they are still brassy and in some places orangey.

I want this to work so badly, but I'm so frustrated and sad.
Carrie
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Re: Gray Roots Still Orange Brassy - Henna/Indigo over ...
I'm sorry to hear this ... so you did a 2-step this time, and you pre-washed with dish soap?
sfgirl
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Re: Gray Roots Still Orange Brassy - Henna/Indigo over ...
I did the two step process.

1. Henna/Amla 2 hours with heat
2. Henna/Amla/Indigo 2 hours with heat

I have very thick curly/wavy hair, so I bought Abba Detox shampoo instead of dish soap. I was still barely able to get through the mats and snarls to be able to separate my hair for the Henna.


Carrie
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Re: Gray Roots Still Orange Brassy - Henna/Indigo over ...
It wonder if the inclusion of an acid in your indigo step is causing a problem in this case. You could try using henna mixed with water, no acid, let that sit for just an hour or so to release dye (it will happen fast because of no acid), then add the indigo paste and apply as before. You could try this right away, while your roots are freshly hennaed. What ratio of henna to indigo are using? Sometimes the mixes with larger amounts of indigo are problematic in terms of getting enough uptake, but that shouldn't really be the case with a 2-step process.

How much color are you getting on your white roots from your henna step? It should be a deep orangey red. If it's not, your roots are just not picking up the henna very well.
sfgirl
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Re: Gray Roots Still Orange Brassy - Henna/Indigo over ...
After the Henna step 1, all of my roots were vibrant scary red. I then used 1/2 Henna 1/2 Indigo.

I'm confused, I thought you need the acid in order to release the dye in the henna?
sfgirl
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Re: Gray Roots Still Orange Brassy - Henna/Indigo over ...
I should say I think it is darkening a little bit. It is 100% better than the first or second time I did it and I don't know how dark it will get over the next few days, but it is still significantly different than the rest of my head
Jen
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Re: Gray Roots Still Orange Brassy - Henna/Indigo over ...
Henna likes a mildly acidic environment for the best dye release. Indigo HATES that. This is why we mix them separately. Sometimes for people who are struggling to get good coverage with a one step henna and indigo combination, its because the acid in the henna portion is interfering too much with the indigo portion. In this case you can mix the henna with water, which will still be a little acidic because henna its self is slightly acidic. Its a balancing act in a one step henna/indigo application to encourage both the henna and indigo to do their best work.
sfgirl
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Re: Gray Roots Still Orange Brassy - Henna/Indigo over ...
I was given advice from a local salon who does Henna. I was told to use boiling water with the Henna/Amla and let let sit for at least 12 hours.They also said to use it with the Indigo mixture. (I couldn't get an appointment for a couple of months so they were trying to help me). I just did a test of the Henna on my arm, and no color was deposited. I read that boiling water kills the Henna, and I feel this has happened.

Do I try to use the Henna mixture or is it useless?
Carrie
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Re: Gray Roots Still Orange Brassy - Henna/Indigo over ...
When you mix henna with boiling water, it makes dye release/demise happen so fast that  A) you have to use it right away, not after 12 hours, and B) it can't attach permanently to the hair, even if you use it right away.  Jen explains the chemistry of henna very well but as I recall, it's something like the hydrogens fall off the dye molecule ... anyway, boiling water + henna + 12 hours = dead (or nearly dead) henna.

There are "premixed" henna dyes on the market that come with the henna and indigo mixed together, and you add boiling water and apply right away for a brown color. They fade pretty badly, from what I've heard. Not sure how well this method would do on dye-resistant gray.  Can't hurt to try doing it this way, but it's not something I have high hopes for, with dye resistant hair.


Carrie
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Re: Gray Roots Still Orange Brassy - Henna/Indigo over ...
For several years I did a 2-step henna/indigo for black on my husband's gray hair. One time as an experiment, I tried using a henna/boiling water mix for the henna step. Everything looked okay at first but it was fading very badly within 2 weeks, leaving him with brassy light orange roots. When the boiling water/henna faded, it took the indigo along with it.
sfgirl
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Re: Gray Roots Still Orange Brassy - Henna/Indigo over ...
I'm like a bad penny that keeps popping up! hahaha

I haven't done my hair again, but I'm going to try again this week. Lucky me, the gray roots are already starting to pop up, next to them is the orangey color.

So, I had a couple of thoughts.. what do you think????

1. Use Henna/Alma followed by Indigo by itself
    a. Worried about getting too dark. How long to leave each?

2. Use 1/3 Henna/Amla combo with 2/3 Indigo.
     a. Would this one step process just make the orange a little darker? Or would I have a chance of getting some coverage.

Bottom line is now I have the light orange, dark in spots, and the gray coming already. : (

I was also wondering if using a hair dryer is not a good idea, or is it just a way to speed up the "curing" time in half.

Thanks again.... hoping this finally works for me.
Carrie
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Re: Gray Roots Still Orange Brassy - Henna/Indigo over ...
1.  If you want brown, not black, you have to be careful not to leave the indigo step on too long.  I'd say 20 minutes probably will not turn your hair black. I don't encourage this idea because it may take you 20 minutes to get your whole head covered with paste!  If you do it, leave henna/amla on for at least 2 hours, or however long it's been taking you to get a deep orange on your most resistant gray hair.  Leaving indigo paste on for 30 minutes could make it turn black, but 60 minutes probably will. 

2.  You'd have a chance of getting coverage, but sometimes mixes that are heavier on indigo like this don't work that well on dye resistant hair -  often the dye resistant gray does better with a 2-step.  Henna first, followed by henna/indigo.

I would not use heat on your paste during its standing time (you could make it demise and weaken quickly),  but it's okay to use heat while the paste is on your hair.
sfgirl
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Re: Gray Roots Still Orange Brassy - Henna/Indigo over ...
Carrie.....I'm so excited that I had to share this!

IT WORKED! My grays got covered and the brassy hair is gone!

I washed my hair with a combination of Abba Detox shampoo and baking soda. I only used it on the roots and areas I wanted to cover (I missed a spot in the back and that area didn't cover as well). I left it on with a shower cap for about 20 minutes.

I mixed my Henna with Amla and let it sit for 12 hours. I used 1 part Henna/Amla to 1 1/2 parts Henna with a little salt. I used distilled water for both. I then used a bonnet dryer for 1 1/2 hours followed by no heat for 2 hours. Rinsed it off and used conditioner.

Thank you for all of your help and patience. Maybe my formula might help someone else in the future who has stubborn gray and wants to use a one step process to get brunette. ;-)
Carrie
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Re: Gray Roots Still Orange Brassy - Henna/Indigo over ...
I'm so happy to hear that!
pomjoy
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Gray Roots Still Orange Brassy

Hi-

I'm searching for a solution to my brassy orange roots and came across this post.  Can you clarify the recipe again?  I got a little confused about how you mixed and what parts you used.  I've copied your original post and bolded so you can see it.

"I mixed my Henna with Amla and let it sit for 12 hours. I used 1 part Henna/Amla to 1 1/2 parts         Henna with a little salt. I used distilled water for both. I then used a bonnet dryer for 1 1/2 hours followed by no heat for 2 hours. Rinsed it off and used conditioner."
 

Thanks for any help.  I am at my wits end with these orange roots.

 

Sparkle
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Covering gray with Hendigo

I have been hennaing my hair for the past 7 years and as I grey more the redness was too much for me and I decided to do hendigo to tone it down. My hair is past my rear and the first time I had help from a friend. I had thought she missed some of my roots as the color didn't take well in the grey stripe I have on the top of my head. A sort of washed out mousy brown. I knew if I had kept at it it would eventually look awful as it grew out. So 4 weeks later ( my hair grows fast) here I am again. I used hendigo last Sunday and the same results. So I called for more info after reading here.

( it was a long day stuck inside and for nothing) I have coarse hair. No damage.  :(
Started with henna only after a deep cleanse. 4 hours. Then hendigo with salt and distilled water for an addition 4. Now I have bright red roots and dark hair elsewhere. I am really bumme and considering cutting off my long silky hair and just not coloring it at all. I was planning to have dreadlocs put in next month. I have been growing my hair for 3 years with this in mind. Very dissapointed. I should have stuck with just henna. I can't undo my hendigo.

pomjoy
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Gray Roots Still Brassy

Hi-

I was having the exact same problem and able to remedy it this past weekend by following these instructions:

Immediately before applying hendigo:  Wash roots (if only coloring roots) with baking soda and a detox shampoo.  Cover and leave on for 20 minutes.  Really massage the mixture into your roots.  Rinse thoroughly and add NO conditioner.  Your hair may be really dry and tangly but conditioner will cause the hendigo not to adhere. 

I use Henna and Alma (Alma is the acid) mixed with distilled water.  The ratio is 1/4 part Alma to 1 part henna so if you are using 25 grams of henna you need 6.25 grams of alma.  Let sit until dye release (8-12 hours). 

When dye release is finished, mix 1 part (25 grams) or 1 1/2 parts (37.5 grams) indigo with distilled water (amount depends on if you want lighter or darker brown - more indigo = darker the brown).  Add a teaspoon of salt to the indigo mixture.  Mix the Henna Alma mixture to the indigo salt mixture and apply to roots.  Cover and let sit for at least 4 hours.  Rinse and admire the results (hopefully).

I was totally frustrated with my red roots and then as my gray grew in I looked awful.  This has restored my confidence in hendigo.  My hair is a bit darker than I want but I'm going to tweak the mixture a bit in the coming months and see how that goes.  Let me know how you make out. 

Sparkle
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Sad

Sorry to say this prescribed idea didn't work for me. I saved a tiny bit of indigo and may try and do a few spots but I am so pissed. My hair is past my waist. I was growing it out with a goala nd now I guess I may cut it off. :/ I really wish I had known ahead of using the indigo this could happen. I researched too!

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