I need a really cool colour)

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Nautica
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I need a really cool colour)

I` m going to dye my hair with henna for the first time, so I`m a bit anxious about it...

 

It`s my natural colour http://yfrog.com/2mclipboard01nelj

 

and it`s my dream one:

http://www.hennaforhair.com/mixes/lovehenna/lovehenna.jpg

or even : http://www.hennaforhair.com/mixes/flavia/flavia1.jpg

What is really important for me is that there should be no RED cast. No REd!!! No REd!!! No REd!!!

Could you give me some appropriate henna recipes?

Can I do without specific substances and herbs and use henna, indigo and COFFEE only?

 

Thank you beforehand)

Carrie
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Re: I need a really cool colour)

With henna, there is always going to be a red cast in bright sunlight, unless you do a 2-step for black.

If you can live with as much red cast as you see in the 2 photos you linked (and I see a definite red cast in those pics) then I'd suggest a 2-step process: 75% Henna, 25% amla for 2 to 3 hours, then rinse and apply 90% indigo, 10% henna for 1.5 hours

Here is what that looks like:

http://www.hennaforhair.com/forum/index.php?module=phpwsbb&PHPWSBB_MAN_OP=view&PHPWS_MAN_ITEMS[]=11178

Coffee will not add anything permanent to your color (just temporary until it washes out) but the caffeine will hype you up.

Nautica
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Re: I need a really cool colour)

Well. Then I`ve got some questions:

What is alma and can I use something instead of it ?

Should I use lemon juice tj prepare the dye and how long the dye should be released?

Can I do these two steps immediately one after the other?

And finally what can I change to make this colour a bit lighter http://i910.photobucket.com/albums/ac304/megumir14/P1010149.jpg?

Carrie
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Re: I need a really cool colour)

To make that color a bit lighter, and slightly warmer (more reddish) leave the amla out and use something else mildly acidic for your liquid (tea, or water with a splash of wine or vinegar, or apple juice, anything mildly acidic). Suggest strand or hairball testing to find the right mix for the color you have in mind.

Dye release with lemon juice would take about 12 hours at normal room temperature, less if your house is hot. With a less acidic liquid like the ones I list above, it will take less time, more like 4-6 hours depending on acidity and room temperature. Don't heat the liquid.

There is an FAQ all about amla in the FAQ section (main forum page). It's Indian gooseberry, which when dried and sifted, can be used in various ways on skin and hair. It's acidic and astringent.

Nautica
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Re: I need a really cool colour)
I`ve decided to use kefir as acidic liquid. This dairy product is widespread at my native place. Should I dilute henna with boiling water before adding kefir or something ?
ACWN
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Re: I need a really cool colour)

Boiling water will cause the henna to dye release instantly and demise very rapidly, resulting in poor color that fades. Its not recommended. Diluting it will also cause a weaker, more orange result which would not be a good base for indigo.

 

I'm not sure I would recommend any sort of dairy product when using indigo, no matter how acidic. Indigo is extremely picky and does not like fats or oils. Using them can inhibit or totally block dye uptake with indigo.

Carrie
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Re: I need a really cool colour)

I agree. You could strand test and find out if it's a problem but it doesn't sound promising to me, with indigo involved.

Nautica
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Re: I need a really cool colour)
Well... I`ve read plenty of henna recipes and broken some of your recomendations to simplify the process I dyed my hair with henna ( henna+coffee+very hot water+ a little kefir). Then waited for 2,5 hours and washed it off. Now my hair is still wet... The colour hasn`t changed a lot. I have a rather orange result. Still I`m going to apply 90% indigo+10 %henna to my hair tomorrow. Am I on the right way? Or should I repeat the 1st step once again? About indigo: I`ve read somewhere that I am to boil indigo gently... Is it reasonable? And what to do with 10% henna then?
ACWN
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Re: I need a really cool colour)

We make suggestions for a reason. And those like Carrie, who has done a lot of plant dye hair experiments, are pretty much experts in henna and indigo hair dyeing. She really does know what shey's talking about. If she suggests or warns against something, its probably a good idea to follow it because otherwise we cant promise any results let alone good ones, unless you have done a strand test and found the results are acceptable to you.

 

We do not boil indigo for hair here. We mix it with warm water until its a paste and then mix it with dye released henna, and apply right away. Or simply mix it and apply after henna for black.

Nautica
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Re: I need a really cool colour)
The thing is I`ve come across a lot of recipes and tried to sum them up... Thank you for all your recomendations they are really useful to me and I appreciate your volunteer help.) I`ll try to follow your instructions and realise the 2nd step with indigo.
Carrie
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Re: I need a really cool colour)

Everyone's experiments and reports are valuable, and I hope you'll let us know what happens with yours!  :)

I would expect boiled indigo to have less available dye, but I haven't tried it. It does fine with hot water as long as you use it quickly, and hot water is what I use. I think some people have even mixed it with boiling water, but to actually boil the paste itself is another thing. It would be interesting to know what happens with that method. But I know you probably don't want to waste your indigo so you may wish to play it safe?

I do think that starting with clean (freshly washed) hair is important with indigo ... if you didn't wash the kefir out you may want to shampoo before applying your hendigo, because the fats in kefir might interfere with the dye. Waiting a day in between henna and indigo is perfectly fine.

Nautica
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Re: I need a really cool colour)
And after mixing henna with indigo should I wait for some time? Can I apply the dye immediately?
Carrie
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Re: I need a really cool colour)

You always want to use anything with indigo in it immediately. Indigo doesn't keep once it's mixed with water.

Nautica
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Re: I need a really cool colour)
Well... I`ve applied hendigo to my hair... But the colour hasn`t changed much.., 1) I poured warm tea in henna and waited for 5 hours 2)Stired hot water in indigo 3) Mixed hendigo 4) Dyed the hair and waited for 1.5 hours... But the colour has become just a bit darker... http://img713.imageshack.us/i/p7301072.jpg/ I assume that at least three things went wrong: 1) I hadnt washed my hair with SHAMPOO before dyeing 2) poured a little cold water in the dye by mistake 3) the proportion of indigo and henna was 75%/25% What`s more I`ve read about the freshness of indigo which can influence the result Perhaps I should have waited for more time but I was afraid or becoming black-haired... Now I`m going to wait for 3 days and made the 3rd step) What if I`ll try to repeat the 2nd step with hendigo?
Carrie
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Re: I need a really cool colour)

When I use something warm to mix with henna, it's ready within an hour. Maybe your henna was pretty weak after sitting for 5 hours? Did you do a skin test on your palm with the henna paste before you put it on your hair?

If the henna can't attach well, the indigo won't either.

Nautica
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Re: I need a really cool colour)
Thus Should I have mixed henna with COLD tea? No I didnt do the test, I`ve heard nothing about it...
ACWN
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Re: I need a really cool colour)

Poke around the forum more, we suggest palm testing all the time. You smear some of the henna onto your palm, let it sit a minute then wipe it off. You're looking for a noticable orange stain. Remember not to mix the indigo in until you have dye release otherwise the indigo will be useless.

 

5 hours with tea is way too long for a tea based mix, I think. Unless you're adding something very acidic like lemon juice to the tea.

 

Room temp to just barely warm tea is fine. I've done mine chilled and gotten dye release in an hour. Usually the suggested dye release time is 2 - 4 hours, but I've never had to wait more than 2 and thats when it was in the middle of winter and blistering cold. So, start testing on your palm at the hour mark, just to be safe.

xyz
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Re: I need a really cool colour)

Nautica,

The home page has information about preparing different plant powders to use in hair coloring, how to check for dye-release, how to do strand tests, prepare a gloss, get the color to stick, et cetera.  The articles describe "best practices" gathered by the lovely people who manage this site and their advice comprise thousands of users' and many years' of experience.  Follow their suggestions:  they'll help you avoid waste, mistakes, and frustration. 

Here's a link:  http://forums.hennapage.com/node/98

Good luck!

Nautica
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Re: I need a really cool colour)
I`m going to repeat my attempt at getting a really cool colour))) Could you check my plan of action?: 1) mix henna with cold black tea+ juice of one lemon ( Can I use this mixture for dye release?) It is said in the instruction that "Henna and/or cassia mixed with an acid should be left to stand at room temperature 12-24 hours before use." But for It`s too hot these days so I`ve left the mixture for less time. Will 10 hours be enough? 2) do palm testing. If the dye leaves a noticable orange stain, the dye is ready 3) mix indigo with hot bottled water 4) mix indigo with henna 5) apply the dye to clean wet hair 6) cover hair 7) wait for 1,5 - 2 hours 8) wash it off without shampoo To get a rather dark colour with a very very slight red I`ll use 15-20% henna + 75-80% indigo.
ACWN
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Re: I need a really cool colour)

1. Sounds good, but 10 hours is too long I think. You're likely to get dye release in about 4 - 8 hours. Tea typically dye release in about 1 - 4 hours (though I've never personally had to wait longer than 2), but with the lemon juice (which should come out to about 2 - 4 tablespoons, I think), that will increase the time by a few hours because its slightly more acidic. I would check for dye release at about 5 hours.

2. The specific stain you're looking for is this - click here. If you get that or a little darker, you're good to go. If its lighter than that, wait another half hour. If you dont have a stain at all or one so faint you have to really stare to see it, let it sit another hour.

3. Distilled, not bottled. Bottled waters often have a lot of minerals and things in them and indigo is very picky. Better safe than sorry. I dont think it needs to be hot-hot either, just warm. Think like baby bath warm water (meaning just a little bit warmer than your own skin) or a bit warmer than that.

4. Yep.

5. Damp, not wet. Towel dried. If your hair is wet, its likely to cause drips and be a pain in the butt.

6. Shower cap or a plastic bag if you arent coordinated enough to do plastic wrap (dont worry, not many of us are), then a beanie or something similar to keep the mix warm on your head. A towel is really heavy and a real pain. Literally.

7. Sounds good.

8. No, you NEED shampoo. Otherwise you're going to have henna and indigo residue in your hair and it will be crunchy and gross. Just a very mild shampoo will do. Anything too strong (like a clarifying shampoo) will pull the indigo out, but something mild will be fine.

Carrie
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Re: I need a really cool colour)

10 hours might be too long, if the henna will be in a hot room. It depends on how hot the room is. At 72'F, I would guess 4 to 6 hours. But at 90'F, it could be ready in 1 hour.

Strand testing would be a really good idea for you. It seems that you're trying to make your blonde hair a very dark brown without red. Trying to avoid red can be difficult with henna, as we've said, and it's worth taking the time to work out the mix that gives the results you want. 

I would suggest doing a strand test with 2 parts indigo, 1 part henna. If you go higher than that with the indigo, it's possible you won't get good coverage. Maybe you will, but I would strand test to find out.

ACWN
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Re: I need a really cool colour)

I also think that when you have a lot more indigo than henna, not only does the indigo have a hard time dyeing properly (and thus poor coverage), it also results in an odd color that isnt entirely natural looking.

 

Or, at least thats what I recall one member reporting.

 

You may want to try strand testing an application of henna, mixed and dye released properly, for several hours to get a good base of henna, then an application of hennigo and amla (to cool the red down) with indigo being the higher ratio by at least a fourth (thus something like 75% indigo, 25% henna). That may give you the color you're seeking.

 

But definitely strand test, because if you do it to your whole head and it comes out with a strong dye, you're stuck with it.

Nautica
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Re: I need a really cool colour)
Well... I`ve been keeping to the insructions, although I didn`t do the strand test. I used 25% henna +75 indigo Now finally I`m rather satisfied wih the colour, although I wanted smth more darker. So thank you very much for your helpful hand! There is a very slight red cast. I want to repeat the experience in 3 weeks` time, cause these natural dyes are very useful to one`s hair. What`s more I`ll try to get a bit darker colour. What if I use 15-20 henna + 85-80 indigo or wait for more then 1/5-2 hours?
Carrie
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Re: I need a really cool colour)

The mix you describe would give very dark brown on your previously hendigoed hair but  probably a lighter color on your virgin roots, because you need a certain amount of henna in the mix to help the indigo stick.

Nautica
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Re: I need a really cool colour)
actually, the colour I`ve got is not as dark as you say. I`ve done the palm test and mixed indigo with not distilled but purified water. What can have gone wrong then? Can my hair itself reject indigo or henna? One more question: during the whole dyeing the dye stayed green. It was green even when I was washing it off. Is it normal?
Carrie
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Re: I need a really cool colour)

Yes, henna paste and indigo paste are green. Usually henna paste gets somewhat brownish as it sits (more or less) but your mix was mostly indigo, which is always green.

What could be going wrong is that you need more henna in your mix, or you might need to resort to a 2-step process.

Nautica
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Re: I need a really cool colour)
"What could be going wrong is that you need more henna in your mix, or you might need to resort to a 2-step process". 1) What if I use 50% henna+ 50% indigo? 2) But my hair had been already slightly dyed with henna before I applied hendigo to it... Maybe, I should have done the 1st and the 2nd steps immediately one after the other?
Carrie
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Re: I need a really cool colour)

Adding 1 part amla to 3 parts henna in the henna portion of your 50/50 henna/indigo mix will make the color come out darker and cooler. There is picture here showing the difference:

http://www.mehandi.com/shop/amla/

Doing the 1st and 2nd steps on the same day is "best practice" because the indigo seems to bind the best that way but many people have done their 2nd step much further down the road and the indigo still works, so I don't expect that was the problem necessarily. Having some henna in the hair for the indigo to grab onto seems to be the key.

Nautica
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Re: I need a really cool colour)
"Having some henna in the hair for the indigo to grab onto seems to be the key." The thing is my hair had already been slightly hennaed before I dyed it with 75% indigo. Maybe the dyes I can get are not so good or something... I`ve never heard anyrhing about alma... I even doubt that I can get it anywhere at my place( P.S. Why is two step process still recommended to me for there is hendigo in my hair?
Carrie
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Re: I need a really cool colour)

If you feel you have a solid foundation of henna in your hair, and you don't have undyed roots yet, you don't have to do 2 steps.

If you feel perhaps there was not enough henna in your hair to get good indigo deposit, then perhaps you need to get some more henna in your hair to help the indigo uptake. You say it was slightly hennaed, so ...

Where do you live? I found amla powder in the herbal tonics section of my Indian grocery store. It contains a lot of Vitamin C so people use it internally I guess (it's not sold for internal use at Mehandi, though)

Carrie
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Re: I need a really cool colour)

If your indigo is stale, it may not give good results at all. If you have a hairball of shed hair, like from your brush, try putting a small amount of indigo paste on it for 1 hour. Cover it airtight and keep it at body temperature or a little warmer, like under a desk lamp. Does it turn the hair black? If not, your indigo is not good anymore. Or you don't have enough henna in the hair to let the indigo stick well.

Nautica
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Re: I need a really cool colour)
I live in Belarus, Eastern Europe) We`ve got Indian shops, but. unfortunately, not in my town.
Nautica
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Re: I need a really cool colour)

Well...

Unfortunately something always goes wrong. My mum said that when she once mixed henna with indigo she got a very bright red colour!  But my hair now is just a little hennaed. I wonder, whether there is any indigo in it.  What do you think? http://yfrog.com/n20465j

http://img833.imageshack.us/img833/8596/0496c.jpg

 

I made the last attempt to get a really cool colour 3 weeks ago. I mixed a lot of indigo, enough henna and ( just to try out)  a ready mixture ( henna + artificial dye " Wild plum ")

And before the first use of shampoo I had a cool rather dark colour...  http://img704.imageshack.us/img704/7159/imgp2249a.jpg

But then my colour vanished... and I think that day after day my hair is more and more natural(

Now I`m going to try out 2-step procedure, which was recommended to me at the very beginning.

 

What do you think?

Nautica
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Re: I need a really cool colour)

the 1st step: 100%  henna  for 2 -3 hours

the 2nd : 80-20 hendigo for 1.5 hours

I`m going to mix henna with cold black tea+ lemon juice. It`s rather cold in the flat, so what if I leave it for a night in a dark place?

When henna is mixed with indigo, must the mixture be left for some time?

 

Maybe all my problems are connected to the quality ant the nature of the dyes we use? http://img543.imageshack.us/img543/3954/0493.jpg

According to the instructions written on the pack both henna and indigo must be mixed with very hot water and then applied to hair separately. 

Carrie
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Re: I need a really cool colour)

I'm not familiar with the brand in your picture but if the quality isn't great it could give poor results. In any case, I usually advise people to follow the manufacturer's directions when using any premixed or possible chemical/henna combination. The instructions we give here only apply to pure individual plant dyes that you mix yourself.

Did you do a hairball test with the indigo as I suggested above, to see if it is any good?

Nautica
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Re: I need a really cool colour)

No, I didn`t do it to be frank.

 I`m too impatient for it) Thaks for tour patience

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