Would like brown color over white hair

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Henled
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Would like brown color over white hair

Hello!

It's my first post so I hope I'm doing this right :). 

We've been trying different ratios of henna mixed with indigo, aiming for a brown color over white hair.   I've mixed Purity henna with just lemon juice (no other liquid),  let sit about 10-12 hours, freeze.  Mixed thawed henna with indigo paste (indigo mixed with slightly warm dilltilled water & tsp salt -- used immediatly after mixing).  Left on head 6 hours.

Still getting copper/orange highlights.  I'm thinking of switching from indigo to a high-dye content henna (Yemen) application followed by a 1 Tbs buxus/1/2 cup conditioner gloss for 1 hour.  Think that might get closer to a "true brown"? 

Would switching to using only apple juice (with a much shorter dye release time) for mixing the henna change the color or "hold effect"?

Thanks for any suggestions!

Carrie
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Re: Would like brown color over white hair

Try a shorter application time - 1.5 or 2 hours instead of 6. When you leave hendigo on that long, the henna outpaces the indigo and you end up with a color that is too reddish.

Henled
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Re: Would like brown color over white hair

Update:  Today I tried an application of 50/50 henna+indigo mixture (hendigo) over black hair with white roots.  Rinsed out after 2 hours.

The good news is, no orange red roots! :)

But it gave bright blond roots! :(

This is what I did:

Mixed 50 grams Purity henna with slightly warm apple juice.  Let sit 5 hours for dye release (it left orange stain on palm).  Froze overnight in plastic baggie.  Let thaw just until soft.  Then dipped plastic baggie in warm water just enough to take the chill off.

Mixed 50 grams indigo with warm water (with added 1 tsp salt).  Stirred into thawed henna and applied.  Let sit 2 hours.

Result: blond!!

Any suggestions how to adjust this hendigo mixture to get brown?

Thanks!

Carrie
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Re: Would like brown color over white hair

With blond results, I think neither the henna nor the indigo deposited much color. That's the color you'd usually get if you did a henna/indigo gloss for 30 minutes.

I wonder if your henna wasn't giving you good stain by the time you applied it; maybe it was demising?  When you mixed it with the indigo right before application, did it stain your skin?  I know you tested it before you froze it, not sure if you tested it again after thawing?

Was your hair freshly washed and not conditioned? Is your gray dye resistant, to your knowledge? If it might be, you could try adding a little baking soda to your shampoo to rough up the cuticle a little. The new outgrowth is the healthiest, most intact and least porous hair on your head since it hasn't "weathered" yet, so sometimes you have to rough it up a bit to get it to take the dyes as strongly as your more porous length will.

sharond
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Re: Would like brown color over white hair

But I thought you couldn't get blond in this henna process?  Oh I am confused now.

Henled
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Re: Would like brown color over white hair

Hi sharond,

It looks like there was a problem with my henna's dye release time so that's what gave the unusual results. 

Carrie mentioned, "That's the color you'd usually get if you did a henna/indigo gloss for 30 minutes".  

I'm not very familiar with glosses, but if you're looking for a blond color over whites, maybe it  would work for you :). 

Henled
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Re: Would like brown color over white hair

Thanks for the help, Carrie! :)

The inital stain-test from before freezing is still on my palm a day later so the henna paste seemed to go into the freezer with good dye release.  It only thawed about an hour (just enough to be spreadable) but I didn't test after thawing.  I did a quick dip of the baggie into mildly warm water to take it from cold to lukewarm before I mixed in the indigo paste (wanted to be sure not to kill the indigo). 

Come to think of it, I don't think it stained my gloves during application like it usually does.  I've never had a problem with other frozen/thawed henna.  Any ideas on how to avoid this from happening again?

I've only recently switched from lemon juice to apple juice for the henna mix-in liquid.  Do you know a general dye release time for apple juice?  About how long of a "window" before demise?  Was the 5 hours "normal"? 

Yes, hair was washed within an hour of application.  The roots are white (I think white takes dye easier than gray?) and I just learned from mauhall about the baking soda tip! :)

Thanks very much for your advice!  Still would like to achieve a brown-headed look :)

Carrie
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Re: Would like brown color over white hair

When I've frozen paste that was past its peak, the dye wasn't as good as when I froze it when it was just starting to release dye. Possibly the warmth of the apple juice made dye release happen lots faster than cold would have. Seems odd that it would demise that fast but maybe the freezing pushed it over the edge?

Cold apple juice would take a few hours to start releasing dye (2? 6? depends on the room temperature in part). The faster it releases, the faster it will demise.

Some dye resistant hair doesn't do well unless you give it a 2-step treatment. Having henna in the hair first helps indigo to take. Take a look at the FAQ on troubleshooting gray coverage for more ideas.

xyz
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Re: Would like brown color over white hair

Like you, I was having trouble  with my grays...I followed all the suggestions above (strong shampoo, just-washed & still damp hair, amla in the henna and salt in the indigo, decreasing application time) and eventually it all worked out.  So, my advice:  keep at it.  Reapply. 

I'm not sure what shade of brown you're aiming for, but my grays/whites turned out too "light" (light auburn/golden reddish brown) until I increased the indigo from 1/2 (50%) to 2/3 (67%).  In the meantime I also switched from Punjabi Prime to Celebration, and I suspect the later's deeper red deposit helped my grays achieve a richer, darker brown at the end. 

However, as Carrie suggested on her last post, sometimes changing from a hendigo (1 step) to a 2 step process (henna followed by indigo) becomes necessary.  For my sister, whose grays wouldn't take the brown no matter what we tried, I ended up doing a full-strength henna (Punjabi Prime for 2 hrs, plus whatever she had layered from previous hendigoes), and followed it with a very strong gloss (it was actually more like a full strength indigo with conditioner added to reduce the grittiness) left on for 1 hour.  It worked like a charm, and she's seen little fading since; it's been over a year now.  She did touch up the length with a mix of 2 TBSP indigo + 1 TBSP dye-released henna in a cup of conditioner once about 6 months ago because she wanted to perk-up the color; and we decided on the 2:1 ratio because we were afraid of an "all indigo" gloss making her hair too dark.  So that's another possibility for you to consider.  But first, just try reapplying with hendigo/henna that is at its peak and see if that does the trick.  (Keeping up with using plant-based dyes is definitely easier when steps are simplified...)

Good luck to you!

Henled
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Re: Would like brown color over white hair

Just checked back into the forum and saw your reply -- thanks for the encouragment, xyz!  As soon as the roots grow out I'm going to try, try, again :).  Aiming for a deep brown (staying away from the "light" tones like you mentioned).

I really appreciated seeing your measurements & times...the glossing sounds like a good backup plan if the hendigo still doesn't work.

About how many hours do you leave on your hendigo?  

 

xyz
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Re: Would like brown color over white hair

I do 2 to 2.5 hours long hendigoes.  My grays were going too red with the 4 hours I used to doing.  It didn't bother me for a long time, but last year I suddenly started getting MANY more gray/white strands...they were popping everywhere.  Something had to be done, and fast!  So, I progressively increased the indigo and decreased the application time.  I still have light-colored strands, but they are a much deeper brown-red, better suited to the overall darkness of my hair.

Henled
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Re: Would like brown color over white hair

Short and simple...sounds good!

Yeah, for now, the mix of dyed whites and still natural hairs gives a nice "highlighted effect", but there's the thought in the back of the mind, "what will this look like when every hair is one color?"  Want to have a deep brown mix for that :).

Thanks again! 

xyz
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Re: Would like brown color over white hair

Hahahahaha!  I thought I was the only one trying to devise the perfect formula to use 5-10 yrs from now, when instead of being 10% gray, I'll likely be 10% brown!

mamaherrera
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Re: Would like brown color over white hair

 This is my thread, this is my problem.  I"ve been using Jamila henna dye releasing in 3-4 hours with half chamomile/water and it is leaving a nice stain, then I do the indigo and mix, 50/50.  and get like a blondy color.  so blond I can't decide if it's white/blonde.  I've tried the salt, but I hate the thought of using baking soda on my roots as I do this once a week, and that's gonna ruin my hair so . . . Maybe it's the henna.  How long do you all think jamila needs for a perfect dye release with that mix I explained above?? I know it's staining my husband's thumb.  I would like to know how to get over this problem as well.  I would hate to have to do a 2step, because I'm also thinking in 5-10 years and to do a 2 step with more and more hair, what a pain in the butt.  No I want a one step to work for me.  Any other thoughts on how to get this I take them all in. I'll try more indigo, but I hope it's enough henna so that the color sticks. 

Carrie
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Re: Would like brown color over white hair

Different batches of Jamila have different dye release requirements. But if hubby's hand was stained, it had released dye.

Have you tried adding amla? Adding heat while it's on your head? Using dish soap prior? How long are you leavig it on? 

mamaherrera
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Re: Would like brown color over white hair

 I'm leaving it on for 1.5 hours.  And I do put a knit hait over my plastic cap for heat.  I always wash, not with dishsoap because I don't want sulfates, but I do use a low-sulfate shampoo.  I hope that's al you asked me??  This is so frustrating.  I do have amla, could try, but will that help me get a darker color?? I wouldn't mind a blonde, honestly, that's what I wanted to begin with, but when I did a cassia/henna/indigo, I only got like a very light yellow, I want a dark blonde if I'm going to go blonde.  Even this color I'm getting from hendigo, is so blonde it looks white, I want a definite blonde or a brown.  Anyways. . . this strand test I did was like a blonde with a hint of green and seven days later that's how it stayed.  So. .. . If I use amla, no tea, right?

Carrie
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Re: Would like brown color over white hair

2 to 2.5 hours is usually best for a dark brown with less red tones.

By adding heat, I didn't mean just retaining body heat with a hat, but adding lots of heat, like with a heating cap or a bonnet hairdryer.

It's possible your dye resistant hair is not getting stripped enough of oils and opened up a bit prior to the hendigo because of the gentler shampoo you are using. When you have dye resistant hair you need to give yourself every advantage.

Amla does help indigo give a darker result, see photo here:

 http://www.mehandi.com/shop/amla/

You add 20% amla powder to 80% henna powder, add water, mix thoroughly. Usually you can allow 12 hours with an amla mix. Amla will be your acid, don't add anything else acidic. When you use amla, you can use equal amounts of henna and indigo instead of a higher amount of indigo, since the amla will darken the results.

Then when the henna is staining your palm, mix up indigo powder with room temp water and 1 tsp salt, stir thoroughly, add to henna/amla paste, stir thoroughly, apply to freshly clarified/dish-soap cleaned and damp hair for 2 to 2.5 hours.

Did you try any of the brown gloss mixes? These are a long shot for you since you are having dye resistance but they'd be quick and easy if they worked for you! (sorry I can't recall to whom I've suggested different ideas).

http://www.flickr.com/photos/39335752@N04/3713939746/in/set-72157619485710101

 

mamaherrera
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Re: Would like brown color over white hair

 And one more thing. . . if I use henna and amla mixed together, right?  I add the amla mix directly to the henna powder before water, they mix together?? How long do you think that jamila is going to need for dye release?? So I know when to start checking more or less

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